1 million youth unemployed

[User removed 4]

theres a large splice of bollocks in that argument. how come immigrants are willing to work here for the "pittance", living with the same living costs as the locals and usually managing to send some money home? inflexible attitudes to work or expection of living standards are the only reasons i can think of. these are social, not economic reasons the locals dont fill the places the immigrants do.

There is a steaming great pile of bollocks in your argument, how is the pole who is sharing a two bedroom flat with six other poles ( as mentioned by barrel of fun in another thread)bearing the same living costs as the locals ? The fact of the matter is that a lot of them come here precisely so they can work , live frugally and send money home to a country where the cost of living is significantly low enough for the money to make a big difference.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Or the more likely situation is that the company would move the whole operation to a different country where the same quality of labour could be obtained for less, and threfore able to offer the product cheaper whilst still making a profit

Possibly, but low cost centres only have a limited time span. In my field a friend looked into this and estimated that there is a two year time frame before the better and more flexible members of the work force are up to speed and either demand more money or move on to where they can get more dosh.

 

[User removed 4]

Or the more likely situation is that the company would move the whole operation to a different country where the same quality of labour could be obtained for less, and threfore able to offer the product cheaper whilst still making a profit

So the farmer who cant get locals to harvest his potatos/cabbages etc would upsticks and move to romania to avoid higher labour costs would he ?

 

[Simster]

theres a large splice of bollocks in that argument. how come immigrants are willing to work here for the "pittance", living with the same living costs as the locals and usually managing to send some money home? inflexible attitudes to work or expection of living standards are the only reasons i can think of. these are social, not economic reasons the locals dont fill the places the immigrants do.

No there isn't, bushy is right. Most migrant workers prepared to do the low paid work come here armed only with a rucksack of cloths. Most have little or no interest in settling here, so they simply don't have the same living costs as the locals at all.

Edit: just seen bushy's reply, which is spot on:

There is a steaming great pile of bollocks in your argument, how is the pole who is sharing a two bedroom flat with six other poles ( as mentioned by barrel of fun in another thread)bearing the same living costs as the locals ? The fact of the matter is that a lot of them come here precisely so they can work , live frugally and send money home to a country where the cost of living is significantly low enough for the money to make a big difference.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

There is a steaming great pile of bollocks in your argument, how is the pole who is sharing a two bedroom flat with six other poles ( as mentioned by barrel of fun in another thread)bearing the same living costs as the locals ? The fact of the matter is that a lot of them come here precisely so they can work , live frugally and send money home to a country where the cost of living is significantly low enough for the money to make a big difference.

This does happen but I think too much emphasis is given to it and it's not as one sided as is made out. It affects the low-paid unskilled sector mainly. A sector where Bushy's immigrants are also up against young British people with very low outgoings e.g. youngsters living at home and students living in hovels. So, I do not believe that immigrants are totally undercutting the British workforce in this scenario, there's some like-for-like competition in my mind.

 

[beorhthelm]

There is a steaming great pile of bollocks in your argument, how is the pole who is sharing a two bedroom flat with six other poles ( as mentioned by barrel of fun in another thread)bearing the same living costs as the locals ? The fact of the matter is that a lot of them come here precisely so they can work , live frugally and send money home to a country where the cost of living is significantly low enough for the money to make a big difference.

you've illustrated my point exactly. why are locals willing to leave home and house share with 3, 4, 5 others in order to get a job and move on in life. flexibilty and expected living standards. some Brits are willing to do something like this, builders or those working on major construction project might travel across the country (or the world) and live in a B&B, lodgings, carvan on site. also, what you describe isnt a long way from student digs, quite common to have 4 or 5 students in a 3 bed house. to make a change in prospects some need to see the long term benefits of a short term lower standard of living.

 

[glasfryn]

Firstly might I say well done Biscuit hope the job works out for you.
I suppose I am rather lucky in the fact that both the grandchildren have done OK neither had any qualifications from school both worked hard in jobs they did not like he now owns his own plumbing and heating company(after doing his apprenticeship) and is not frightened to get up at 2am to go and sort out someones plumbing and will not charge them the earth nor was he frightened to take on an apprentice, she is a grafter and works within her parents business and most days is up at 4am towing a huge catering van, she is the size of a pint pot.
I say all this because they managed to go out in the wide world and prove themselves,it is like life you have to set yourself a goal and go and try to get it, I do sometimes wonder about the youth, yesterday I came across a young man who is working at Asda who point blank refused to help a "colleague" while she was in a sticky position with a very awkward customer and when I went and had a chat with him he said it was more than his jobs worth to move to help her his job was designated and was not allowed to move away from it "I want to get on in this company and will not rock the boat" a bit robot like but can understand that it took him a while to get the job so why throw it away.
not all the youth of this country are lazy. there just is not enough work to go around and my opinion for what its worth is work with your hands, become an artisan at what you do and you might be able to survive that way and keep your political views to yourself and if you have a boss be nice to him even if you don't like him/her.

 

[User removed 4]

This does happen but I think too much emphasis is given to it and it's not as one sided as is made out. It affects the low-paid unskilled sector mainly. A sector where Bushy's immigrants are also up against young British people with very low outgoings e.g. youngsters living at home and students living in hovels. So, I do not believe that immigrants are totally undercutting the British workforce in this scenario, there's some like-for-like competition in my mind.

It's not just kids living at home though, I had a lot of financial troubles five or so years ago , I had to take a job outside the city, apart from trading/broking I really dont have any skills relevant to the job market, i ended up in a job taking home something like £180 quid a week, try paying for a family on that sort of money , and i wasnt the only married man with kids there either.

 

[Simster]

you've illustrated my point exactly. why are locals willing to leave home and house share with 3, 4, 5 others in order to get a job and move on in life. flexibilty and expected living standards. some Brits are willing to do something like this, builders or those working on magor consturction project might travel across the country (or the world) and live in a B&B, lodgings, carvan on site. also, what you describe isnt a long way from student digs, quite common to have 4 or 5 students in a 3 bed house. to make a change in prospects some need to see the long term benefits of a short term lower standard of living.

He's done nothing other than completely wrecked your argument.

A Pole can come to Britain for 2 years, live frugally with 5 others then go back to Poland to settle down, sitting on £10,000 which will go A LOT further there than it does here.

A Brit does that, and the minute he settles down will find his £10k doesn't go very far at all, and will wonder why he wrote off those two years in the first place. Or do you want him to go and live in Poland too?

 

[glasfryn]

So the farmer who cant get locals to harvest his potatos/cabbages etc would upsticks and move to romania to avoid higher labour costs would he ?

I don't like to say Bushy but there are some farmers buying huge swathes of land in Russia and other parts of Eastern Europe to do just that.

 

[User removed 4]

you've illustrated my point exactly. why are locals willing to leave home and house share with 3, 4, 5 others in order to get a job and move on in life. flexibilty and expected living standards. some Brits are willing to do something like this, builders or those working on major construction project might travel across the country (or the world) and live in a B&B, lodgings, carvan on site. also, what you describe isnt a long way from student digs, quite common to have 4 or 5 students in a 3 bed house. to make a change in prospects some need to see the long term benefits of a short term lower standard of living.

I havent illustrated anything , you're floundering around trying to rescue what was essentially a weak argument, the people you mention, such as builders on a major construction project etc, are earning a living probably attractive wage, no matter how much people say they should, people are not going to move from for instance liverpool to suffolk and live 4 to a room to pick cabbages for £6.50 an hour, the reason poles do it is because the money they send home makes a difference.

 

[BigGully]

Firstly might I say well done Biscuit hope the job works out for you.
I suppose I am rather lucky in the fact that both the grandchildren have done OK neither had any qualifications from school both worked hard in jobs they did not like he now owns his own plumbing and heating company(after doing his apprenticeship) and is not frightened to get up at 2am to go and sort out someones plumbing and will not charge them the earth nor was he frightened to take on an apprentice, she is a grafter and works within her parents business and most days is up at 4am towing a huge catering van, she is the size of a pint pot.
I say all this because they managed to go out in the wide world and prove themselves,it is like life you have to set yourself a goal and go and try to get it, I do sometimes wonder about the youth, yesterday I came across a young man who is working at Asda who point blank refused to help a "colleague" while she was in a sticky position with a very awkward customer and when I went and had a chat with him he said it was more than his jobs worth to move to help her his job was designated and was not allowed to move away from it "I want to get on in this company and will not rock the boat" a bit robot like but can understand that it took him a while to get the job so why throw it away.
not all the youth of this country are lazy. there just is not enough work to go around and my opinion for what its worth is work with your hands, become an artisan at what you do and you might be able to survive that way and keep your political views to yourself and if you have a boss be nice to him even if you don't like him/her.

Wise words ....

However your unqualified grandchildren maybe would have found a different dynamic in todays employment market.

It might be today there is more plumbers, not only nationals vying for employment and opportunity within this sector.

Maybe the workforce your grandson employs, do not necessarilly reflect the workforce he originally entered and he too employs migrants directly effecting opportunity for some.

 

[beorhthelm]

A Brit does that, and the minute he settles down will find his £10k doesn't go very far at all, and will wonder why he wrote off those two years in the first place. Or do you want him to go and live in Poland too?

why does the 18yo (we are talking about youth unemployment after all) have to settle down?

people are not going to move from for instance liverpool to suffolk and live 4 to a room to pick cabbages for £6.50 an hour, the reason poles do it is because the money they send home makes a difference.

why not? you are saying that somehow because they can send money home, its worth it for the Pole, but its not worth it for a local 18 yo who has no responsiblities and can just live on those earnings himself.

you are excusing those that say they dont earn enough therefore dont have to try. leave them on benefits then and pay for it in your taxes and social breakdown. don't knock the Poles willing to make the effort.

 

[glasfryn]

Wise words ....

However your unqualified grandchildren maybe would have found a different dynamic in todays employment market.

It might be today there is more plumbers, not only nationals vying for employment and opportunity within this sector.

Maybe the workforce your grandson employs, do not necessarilly reflect the workforce he originally entered and he too employs migrants directly effecting opportunity for some.

he employs one apprentice and I think one qualified man both local.
one of the last large jobs I worked on a block of offices in London had many Polish plumbers working there after the London firm were sacked for falling well behind the poles were fast, neat,and very very good at reading plans and bent over backwards to fit in with all the other trades, maybe this is another reason they have come here dare I say better than us at there chosen trade ............artisans

 

[Hatterlovesbrighton]

So the farmer who cant get locals to harvest his potatos/cabbages etc would upsticks and move to romania to avoid higher labour costs would he ?

Perhaps not, but a supermarket seeking to acquire potatoes and cabbage would see that he could get the same quality product for less money overseas than he could in the UK.

 

[User removed 4]

why does the 18yo (we are talking about youth unemployment after all) have to settle down?



why not? you are saying that somehow because they can send money home, its worth it for the Pole, but its not worth it for a local 18 yo who has no responsiblities and can just live on those earnings himself.

you are excusing those that say they dont earn enough therefore dont have to try. leave them on benefits then and pay for it in your taxes and social breakdown. don't knock the Poles willing to make the effort.

I havent knocked anybody, yet again you're attempting to draw attention away from your flimsy argument, what i am saying , in a nutshell is that if we didnt have poles willing to work for £6.50 an hour , employers would have to pay up for a brit to do the job, I speak from experience on this , as a married man with kids, working for minmum wage is f***ing miserable, if there were no foreign competitors who are willing to work for less your argument for people to travel may have some validity, as it stands , it's worthless.

 

[User removed 4]

Perhaps not, but a supermarket seeking to acquire potatoes and cabbage would see that he could get the same quality product for less money overseas than he could in the UK.

And if my granny had bollocks she'd be my grandad, there are so many if's and but's, we only have to look at how our energy is so fkin expensive because we have to rely on foreign owned firms and supplies.

 

[Simster]

why does the 18yo (we are talking about youth unemployment after all) have to settle down?

Your solution to the problem I highlight (that a youth stockpiling cash over two years will see it disappear by staying in this country because of the cost of living) is to ask the question why that person need ever settle down?

Feeble. Absolutely feeble.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

theres a large splice of bollocks in that argument. how come immigrants are willing to work here for the "pittance", living with the same living costs as the locals and usually managing to send some money home? inflexible attitudes to work or expection of living standards are the only reasons i can think of. these are social, not economic reasons the locals dont fill the places the immigrants do.

My neighbours in Barnes were from Poland. The seven friends lived in a two bed flat. I'm not sure how the sleeping arrangements worked. All had basic/unskilled jobs, so minimum wage wise, they would have been taking £92k home between them with rent of just £1,200 a month.

Perhaps an isolated case, but they had far more disposable income than myself and the three others living with me.

 

[beorhthelm]

yet again you're attempting to draw attention away from your flimsy argument, what i am saying

and you are trying to compare apples with oranges. we are discussing youth unemployment. im fully aware that the economics changes as one gets older and has a family. that produces a different complexion. What im arguing is that low pay immigrant workers dont necessaryily price local Brits out of work, though accept circumstances of the individual might change the perspective of this.

if we go back to your original point however "if there werent immigrants here willing to do these jobs for a pittance , they'd be forced to make the jobs more attractive financially to get British people to do them" i can offer you an economic argument too. if the employer had to pay much more for the work, the job might not even exist as it would be cheaper elsewhere. if the cost to employ the workers is greater than the price of the produce, business goes bust. or they rise their prices, workers need higher wages... off we go on the inflationary cycle. if you can find the sweet spot where the farmer can slim their margin to and be happy, while also meaningfully increase the wages of the workers, then i suspect you have a career as an economist ahead of you.