[Football] Greg Clarke FA education 101.

[albionalex]

I Aside from the issue in hand, a former womens footballer in America commenting on TV referred to Greg Clarke and Dan Ashworth in the same sentence and I wondered what Dan had to do with the debate.

Probably to do with the Mark Sampson scandal.

 

[Steve in Japan]

Greg Clarke - an almost clean sweep in offending everybody, a very fine effort indeed. A bit disappointed he didn't have a pop at white straight blokes though.

 

[Super Steve Earle]

Northern Irish peer Lord Kilclooney aged 82 allegedly refers to Kamala Harris as 'the Indian'. Not a good day for alleged racists, although, he says in his defence 'is very fond of India myself'. That's alright then.

 

[Pint of Ale and a Burger]

I retired a couple of years ago and like Greg Clarke, I worked for a big institution. I am older than he is, so you might describe me as an old white bloke from a different era. However that big institution I worked for made pretty damn sure that I did my diversity training every quarter and there's no way I would have said or thought what you have put in your second paragraph. But the training also left me very cautious about my words in the company of people I didn't know, just in case a word or phrase in common use at some stage in my life slipped out and offended someone. I wonder if the FA is equally rigorous about diversity training and if Clarke would have done it if they had. Aside from the issue in hand, a former womens footballer in America commenting on TV referred to Greg Clarke and Dan Ashworth in the same sentence and I wondered what Dan had to do with the debate.

Yes I must admit I regret using that wording and also afterwards I thought I was unfair on the others at that level.it wasn't really what I was trying to say.
I apologise and even though I can't change it now I do regret that bit of what I said but the point I was trying to make is the people at the highest level shouldn't really need diversity training it should come naturally same as those players they are representing.at the very least the board should show some diversity.
But you are right the wording I used to describe and indeed generalise the whole board is the same as what Greg Clarke has done and makes me a bit hypocritical.
Thanks for calling me out on that bit.

 

[GT49er]

Is his statement incorrect?

His observation is probably correct (that can easily be checked).
What he makes of it is stereotyping - observing a few and applying that observation to the many.
Stereotyping is not good - it may be the next step to prejudice, but in many cases it is not. Does it prove that Clarke is a racist? I don't know - but just looking at the PL for example, it appears that the Afro-Carribean sector of British society is much better proportionately represented than those of Indian/Pakistani ethnic origin. I don't know why, I don't know if it's a 'problem' - that needs to be looked at. But it must also be accepted that it might not be a problem, just a cultural difference. Which we should respect.

 

[arfer guinness]

His observation is probably correct (that can easily be checked).
What he makes of it is stereotyping - observing a few and applying that observation to the many.
Stereotyping is not good - it may be the next step to prejudice, but in many cases it is not. Does it prove that Clarke is a racist? I don't know - but just looking at the PL for example, it appears that the Afro-Carribean sector of British society is much better proportionately represented than those of Indian/Pakistani ethnic origin. I don't know why, I don't know if it's a 'problem' - that needs to be looked at. But it must also be accepted that it might not be a problem, just a cultural difference. Which we should respect.

I agree stereotyping is wrong, however it is a fact. I work with most probably a more diverse culture than the majority of people on NSC. The greatest section for education is the Indian Asian, their children are more strictly educated than any other race I work with, and that includes all the white employees. Where I live there are far more Asian dentists and doctors than any other race. This isn't racism this is fact. For this statement made by Greg Clarke to offend has been greatly over exaggerated by people who just want to scream racism and pretend to be hurt.

 

[Bodian]

I must say I can never instantly remember whether it is 'people of colour' or 'coloured people' that is currently offensive. Like others, I distinctly remember being taught when youngish to use 'coloured' instead of 'black', so I have to work it out by default, as in 'I was taught to use 'coloured', and I'm pretty sure when that actor bloke said that he got into trouble, so it must be 'people of colour' that's right now'. But to be honest - it's just easier not to use any descriptive term at all. Which is the whole point really isn't it.

As to goalkeeping - I got into trouble on a local council a few years back. There was a grant application for the local boys football team, and another councillor suggested that we only give the grant if they set up a girls football side as well. Later I asked her if she fancied playing in a team, and her response was 'no, I'm rubbish at football'. I immediately said 'that's alright, you can go in goals then'. I heard from others later that she was really offended, as she took my comment to mean that as she was female she had to go in goal as she wouldn't be wanted on the pitch. I had to explain to her down the pub that actually, this is/was a standard response when picking a side at school - anyone who was rubbish, or said they were rubbish - went in goal. It's a minefield!

 

[GT49er]

I agree stereotyping is wrong, however it is a fact. I work with most probably a more diverse culture than the majority of people on NSC. The greatest section for education is the Indian Asian, their children are more strictly educated than any other race I work with, and that includes all the white employees. Where I live there are far more Asian dentists and doctors than any other race. This isn't racism this is fact. For this statement made by Greg Clarke to offend has been greatly over exaggerated by people who just want to scream racism and pretend to be hurt.

The salient point is that Clarke made multiple gaffs. Just one, and an apology should have sufficed, but unfortunately for him he just kept digging deeper.

 

[Super Steve Earle]

Yes I must admit I regret using that wording and also afterwards I thought I was unfair on the others at that level.it wasn't really what I was trying to say.
I apologise and even though I can't change it now I do regret that bit of what I said but the point I was trying to make is the people at the highest level shouldn't really need diversity training it should come naturally same as those players they are representing.at the very least the board should show some diversity.
But you are right the wording I used to describe and indeed generalise the whole board is the same as what Greg Clarke has done and makes me a bit hypocritical.
Thanks for calling me out on that bit.

No need to apologise. I see where you're coming from and and wasn't calling you out at all, but thanks anyway
Funnily enough, I was suggesting the opposite of your later post inasmuch as I had to undertake a diversity module every three months and I know it went a lot higher up the food chain than me and I would suggest that people at the highest level need it just as much as the rest of us, if not more. Frankly, I was appalled and embarrassed at the levels of casual racism, sexism and homophobia I encountered in others who operated in smaller bubbles. It should come naturally at all levels, but it just doesn't. A lot of people just stick with what they learned when they learned it and unless people are nudged in a different direction by their own awareness and regular reminders, they are like tankers who take a long time to turn. But you are right that other board members must have had the opportunity to call out Clarke sooner and, bearing in mind his job, how the hell could he have got it so wrong.

 

[e77]

I could kind of forgive a bloke of his age spouting this sort of the stuff in a pub but anyone in a high paid job who dabbles with racism, sexism and homophobia whilst in front of a televised Commons Select Committee probably wasn't going to be in his high paid job for too much longer.

 

[arfer guinness]

The salient point is that Clarke made multiple gaffs. Just one, and an apology should have sufficed, but unfortunately for him he just kept digging deeper.

I don't disagree with you, I was answering GingerBeerMan #14 When stereotyping all Scots as tight, Welsh as sheep shaggers, blacks as drug dealers and Muslims a terrorists etc. this is totally wrong, but in my mind to state the obvious shouldn't be attacked. I'm not commenting on anything else he said, just this one point has been overblown.

 

[Wardy's twin]

.... if it is a problem? Just asking.

that's a better way of putting it.

I guess i was following the thread that Clarke in his comments implied he saw the situation as a problem (but did FA to fix it).

Need to tighten up my writing... comes with not working anymore, though when I was working I sent out an email to a fairly wide audience and misspelt the word count.

 

[Weststander]

that's a better way of putting it.

I guess i was following the thread that Clarke in his comments implied he saw the situation as a problem (but did FA to fix it).

Need to tighten up my writing... comes with not working anymore, though when I was working I sent out an email to a fairly wide audience and misspelt the word count.

I wasn’t criticising your post.

Instead Greg Clarke’s silly FA IT department anecdote. Most of us wouldn’t I hope analyse and stereotype the races or ethnic background in subsections at work. Separately, at most perhaps harmless passing thoughts such as admiring the hard work of newcomers to these shores eg the eastern European people you come across working as couriers, shopkeepers or staff at the local supermarket.

 

[mothy]

What a dinosaur.

People can have small minded views & not be completely up to date with modern terminology on race & gender - but not when you're the chairman of the fa

 

[Miximate]

that's a better way of putting it.

I guess i was following the thread that Clarke in his comments implied he saw the situation as a problem (but did FA to fix it).

Need to tighten up my writing... comes with not working anymore, though when I was working I sent out an email to a fairly wide audience and misspelt the word count.

Court ?

 

[sydney]

professional suicide .....sure his bank account is healthy enough after nearly 4 yrs in the job , dare say he'll be off to his Spanish retreat as soon as he's able.

 

[NooBHA]

I am a similar age, but would disagree that it was not acceptable. I think it is only the last 20 or so years deemed a bad term.

I have an honest question, if 'coloured' is unacceptable, why is 'people of colour' okay?

I would argue that the term " coloured " has never been acceptable to non whites.

I am not even sure that the term " people of colour " is acceptable either, although non white people do recognise that there has to be a terminology used when making reference to more than one group of non white people and that's a generally accepted compromise.

Many people are defending the terminology used and hiding behind the " Generational " Defense.

If that's the case. Let's get shot of that " Generation " and remove the from positions of power.

Our reluctance to replace older white men from these positions is holding us all back.

Our reluctance to replace them with more " proximate " individuals " who are younger and from BAME backgrounds will always hold us back.

And finally on the subject of " Colour " itself.

We need to change our language to bring ourselves and our country kicking and screaming into " Modernity ". Just look up the terminology " Flesh Coloured " in any dictionary of the English Language.

See what it says or what it conjures up in your own mind and ask yourself. " Is that truly accurate ?

 

[Tokyohands]

 

[Perfidious Albion]

Having learned the pathetic reasons that caused Mr Clarke to resign, I despair at this crazy politically correct world.
I would not last five minutes in public life.....

 

[darkwolf666]

I would argue that the term " coloured " has never been acceptable to non whites.

I am not even sure that the term " people of colour " is acceptable either, although non white people do recognise that there has to be a terminology used when making reference to more than one group of non white people and that's a generally accepted compromise.

Many people are defending the terminology used and hiding behind the " Generational " Defense.

If that's the case. Let's get shot of that " Generation " and remove the from positions of power.

Our reluctance to replace older white men from these positions is holding us all back.

Our reluctance to replace them with more " proximate " individuals " who are younger and from BAME backgrounds will always hold us back.

And finally on the subject of " Colour " itself.

We need to change our language to bring ourselves and our country kicking and screaming into " Modernity ". Just look up the terminology " Flesh Coloured " in any dictionary of the English Language.

See what it says or what it conjures up in your own mind and ask yourself. " Is that truly accurate ?

Funny isn’t it, how we castigate someone for defining people by their colour, then promptly lump everyone under the BAME banner as a means of identification.

I understand from fairly basic research that many people don’t like being described as BAME, finding it offensive and even racist.