[Politics] Brexit

[ManOfSussex]

 

[Soulman]

Brexit hasn't happened yet, so whether you are a 'leave' voter, as I know you are, or 'a remain' voter as I was, to say it's going surprisingly well is not true. We've had a referendum and everything that's followed. Nothing more and no Brexit as yet. The reaction to the result of that referendum and everything that's followed hasn't been as bad as some thought, but then whats followed that referendum result wasn't anticipated by everyone either. The proof is in the pudding in x years after Brexit.

Funny how we keep hearing "Brexit hasn't happened yet", because things are going ok.....so if the "experts" were right then how come it was mean't to be IMMEDIATE carnage/doom/bottom falling out of the economy etc. We were not out of the EU after 23rd June, yet Brexit was to take the full hit when the country plunged....yet it did not.
Now the goalposts are being moved to after we leave.

 

[beorhthelm]

I think it's fair to say thing right now will be as good as they are going to get. Massive risks ahead, though little reported financial services is already feeling a lot of pain, a very low level of recruitment going on with many jobs losses in the pipeline

funny how people are inventing non-existent stories, "little" reported because theres little bad happening. when i read the financial press there's stories of opportunity, office space leases rising, generally positive attitude from business overall. sure there are pundits and think tanks that are pro europe talking us down, but actual business leaders and stats are neutral to mildly positive.

Selling our nations health to the US. God bless Brexit.

also funny how some are inventing policies so they can object to them. we havent even left yet but in your head all manner of negative outcomes have happened already.

 

[Soulman]

Selling our nations health to the US. God bless Brexit.

 

[vegster]

........and even a small upturn in the consumer market like that is anathema to you, contradicting your mantra of doom and gloom. I wonder what it takes to make you happy. The end of the world next week (due, of course, to Brexit) perhaps?

You really don't get it do you .....Specsavers don't actually sell Rose-tinted Glasses ! you really can't see we will be, and are on our way, to being worse off. Throw in the fact that we will shortly be morally bankrupt too as Theresa May rushes to crawl fastest and furthest up the arse of Donald Trump in order to secure a deal, ANY deal, which somehow means we are " Open For Business " and don't need to rely on the horrors of the EU. ...So is inflation reducing ? are petrol prices reducing ? are many shops saying that they can't avoid passing off their increasing costs ? nah, it's ok, Economic growth went up by 0.6% so we are doing marvellously.

We just have to regard the increase in prison suicides, the increase in homelessness, the reduction of mental healthcare funding,the ongoing and continuing reduction of council funding for social care and other services, the withdrawal of £384M from the education budget and decline in standards and our pothole filled overcrowded roads as just one of those things that are an indicator of a booming and growing economy ?

 

[ManOfSussex]

Funny how we keep hearing "Brexit hasn't happened yet", because things are going ok.....so if the "experts" were right then how come it was mean't to be IMMEDIATE carnage/doom/bottom falling out of the economy etc. We were not out of the EU after 23rd June, yet Brexit was to take the full hit when the country plunged....yet it did not.
Now the goalposts are being moved to after we leave.

I don't disagree with you. Immediate carnage and everything else was forecast after the vote, rather like Article 50 being invoked the next day by Cameron who resigned.

We're leaving The EU. Now if everything's going to stay as it was and be all hunky-dory, then what was the point? There will be change, there has to be, surely? There will be an adjustment economically, not just to ourselves, but to the rest of the world including the continent we come from. The question is, to what extent and to what detriment or benefit and to whom? That's not scaremongering, or moving goalposts. I'm sure plenty of people won't notice anything, including an improvement to their situation - I hope they're okay with that after Brexit.

 

[Soulman]

I don't disagree with you. Immediate carnage and everything else was forecast after the vote, rather like Article 50 being invoked the next day by Cameron who resigned.

We're leaving The EU. Now if everything's going to stay as it was and be all hunky-dory, then what was the point? There will be change, there has to be, surely? There will be an adjustment economically, not just to ourselves, but to the rest of the world including the continent we come from. The question is, to what extent and to what detriment or benefit and to whom? That's not scaremongering, or moving goalposts. I'm sure plenty of people won't notice anything, including an improvement to their situation - I hope they're okay with that after Brexit.

" I'm sure plenty of people won't notice anything, including an improvement to their situation".
Except we will be able to decide our own laws, and will have our independence, self-government etc, which for most will be fairly satisfactory.

Anyway you are "sure", i am just optimistic.

 

[ManOfSussex]

" I'm sure plenty of people won't notice anything, including an improvement to their situation".
Except we will be able to decide our own laws, and will have our independence, self-government etc, which for most will be fairly satisfactory.

Anyway you are "sure", i am just optimistic.

I take your point and again, I don't entirely disagree with your point either.

( It's amazing that some of us are occasionally, like on this one, are able to converse on this thread without resorting to abuse and all that, despite voting differently 7 months ago )

 

[BigGully]

You really don't get it do you .....Specsavers don't actually sell Rose-tinted Glasses ! you really can't see we will be, and are on our way, to being worse off. Throw in the fact that we will shortly be morally bankrupt too as Theresa May rushes to crawl fastest and furthest up the arse of Donald Trump in order to secure a deal, ANY deal, which somehow means we are " Open For Business " and don't need to rely on the horrors of the EU. ...So is inflation reducing ? are petrol prices reducing ? are many shops saying that they can't avoid passing off their increasing costs ? nah, it's ok, Economic growth went up by 0.6% so we are doing marvellously.

We just have to regard the increase in prison suicides, the increase in homelessness, the reduction of mental healthcare funding,the ongoing and continuing reduction of council funding for social care and other services, the withdrawal of £384M from the education budget and decline in standards and our pothole filled overcrowded roads as just one of those things that are an indicator of a booming and growing economy ?

You are just quoting your general political view, a view on issues that were formed and delivered whilst we were embedded within the EU without any likely chance to ever leave it and has very little to do with Brexit.

 

[vegster]

You are just quoting your general political view, a view on issues that were formed and delivered whilst we were embedded within the EU without any likely chance to ever leave it and has very little to do with Brexit.

Yep, you don't get it, fair enough.

 

[vegster]

" I'm sure plenty of people won't notice anything, including an improvement to their situation".
Except we will be able to decide our own laws, and will have our independence, self-government etc, which for most will be fairly satisfactory.

Anyway you are "sure", i am just optimistic.

Well there we go, it's all worth it then despite it not making any improvement.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

You quoted SMMT as saying the decline in investment numbers was down to Brexit.I still can't find this attribution,which is why I wanted you to post it,but you can't be arsed.The Jaguar new engine plant on its own cost well over half a billion,and there have been other major infrastructure investments from them,Nissan,JCB etc so someone is obviously talking bolox about Brexit again.Just wondered who?

I've no idea who is talking bolox. You? The Society of Motor Vehicle Manufacturers & Traders? The Times? All I know is that I sat at breakfast, eating three slices of toast and Wilkins marmalade, and read the comments from the SMMT about the continuing high output levels being needed to meet demand from the home, and (much more important) export markets, and the fact that they reflected major investment in new products and equipment four or five years ago. Reading on, I noted their comments that, overall, their members were cutting back on these investment levels because of uncertainty about Brexit.

As far as I can tell, you are saying that Jaguar spent half a billion on its engine plant last year and other makers spent big money too and this therefore means that the £1.6bn figure quoted by the SMMT must be rubbish. That seems a extreme conclusion to draw from the information at hand, particularly as the SMMT are presumably closer to the action than we are, but if you're happy with it, fine.

 

[beorhthelm]

We just have to regard the increase in prison suicides, the increase in homelessness, the reduction of mental healthcare funding,the ongoing and continuing reduction of council funding for social care and other services, the withdrawal of £384M from the education budget and decline in standards and our pothole filled overcrowded roads as just one of those things that are an indicator of a booming and growing economy ?

so thats all down to policy in the past 6 months, due to Brexit?

 

[Soulman]

I take your point and again, I don't entirely disagree with your point either.

( It's amazing that some of us are occasionally, like on this one, are able to converse on this thread without resorting to abuse and all that, despite voting differently 7 months ago )

I think it is the way you word your posts, not patronising or making out that Leavers are thick..... and the other words that label .

 

[Soulman]

Well there we go, it's all worth it then despite it not making any improvement.

I was quoting Man Of Sussex actually.

 

[vegster]

so thats all down to policy in the past 6 months, due to Brexit?

In simple terms, we have been told that the thought of brexit has not affected our economy in any way. But, our economy is flawed ( Ref Mrs May ) already and brexit puts more stresses on an economy geared up to be a service industry. if we are failing many of our our population now, what happens when brexit actually happens.

 

[portslade seagull]

so thats all down to policy in the past 6 months, due to Brexit?

I was made redundant 30yrs age that was due to Brexit. I've only just realised it. Also the rising Global Oil price is down to Brexit as well and the record low interest rates and,and,and. I remember when the global oil price was over $100 a barrel that was Brexits fault as well. If the remainers can look into the future I can look into the past !!

 

[Lincoln Imp]

I think it is the way you word your posts, not patronising or making out that Leavers are thick..... and the other words that label .

As someone who has just been called a hypocritical moron with blood on his hands by one of NSC's more strident Brexteers I do agree with that it is nicer to be nicer, although one advantage of Pasta's delightful outburst is that it helped my immunity against implications that I am a liar, made only today.

 

[cunning fergus]

I'm a staunch remainer but I think a soft Brexit would be shit. From the remain point of view, we would still be part of and beholden to the system and yet we would have, by our own hand, decided to remove our seat at the table which allowed us to dictate and mold the system itself. That would be frickin' clown shoes IMO. Neither side would get what they want and we'd all be pissing and moaning for DECADES. I'm all for an either in or out approach.

So no. Don't go making sweeping aspersions about the attitudes of "remainers". All you are doing is perpetuating this US vs THEM shit.

Some of you appear to enjoy it.

Well hold on there, as a remainer you may well be all-in on what is referred to as hard Brexit, however the very term was not part of the lingua franca pre-23/6, it has only entered the political lexicon as a ruse by remainers to well......remain. You are an exceptional outlier.

As for your point about staying in and molding that is yesterday's chip paper as you lost the argument. So its about the way forward, and dare I say molding from the outside.

The only reason the UK won't get want it wants by way of a settlement is now due to the EU. So, there is the possibility that we will get zero tariff trade, passporting etc. and control of our laws and borders if the EU wants to play ball.

The way it used to work is dead, it's now about finding a new way forward for all the countries in Europe, possibly even a return of national currencies. There is no doubt the EU cannot move forward given the political environment on the continent.

So, no reason beyond pride and ego that we don't have a bright trading future with our European friends.

 

[portslade seagull]

As someone who has just been called a hypocritical moron with blood on his hands by one of NSC's more strident Brexteers I do agree with that it is nicer to be nicer, although one advantage of Pasta's delightful outburst is that it helped my immunity against implications that I am a liar, made only today.

Its all a game of tennis. Lets hope we win the footy one tomorrow