Death Penalty anyone?

[Easy 10]

Yeah but there's that, uhhh, DNA and shit now. And CSI.

 

[Herne Hill Seagull]

There is indeed Easy. And there's also simple f*** ups caused by good old fashioned human error, or more sinister reasons, whichever it may be:

BBC NEWS | Scotland | Edinburgh, East and Fife | Chloroform murder appeal man free

That's this year. Who's to say what this chap's fate would have been, had we still administered the death penalty in this country? This took me no more than a couple of minutes to find a recent case, there are plenty of others - Ian Lawless, or Brendan Dixon, for example. Doesn't matter how clever and whizzy the collection of evidence is, if that evidence either doesn't make it to court, or is corrupted in some way.

 

[Easy 10]

The guy is called LAWLESS for christs sake. I mean DURR
Of course he was guilty.

 

[Superseagull]

Maybe we could do a deal with the Saudi's to make our life spend 20% of there sentance out in Saudi prison. After a few months out there they would wish they were dead. A Saudi prison makes ours look like Butlins. I think that might make the low life scum think twice before commiting crime without the grief of bringing back capital punishment.

 

[throbinson]

Why do people who are against the death penalty go on about the person who has comited the crime, never a metion about the victem or there family these are the people that really do a life sentence

 

[Psychobilly freakout]

American culture plays a massive part in our current problem. Dismiss what people see as a right wing white Daily Mail 'rap music twists their minds' view at your peril. Plenty of black people in inner London agree with that view and fight tooth and nail not to let kids get sucked into it. Add a gun culture from Jamaica that has been around from the year dot, a deliberate rejection of the majority culture, and West African criminal culture, and you have a dangerous mix that is the one of the main causes of these 'statistics'.

It is a massive question what caused our current problems, and there are many factors that not many on here are qualified to discuss with authority. But there is a problem that cannot just be blamed on poverty or lack of opportunities. Some bore will tell me the jocks are always stabbing each other or these things happen everywhere without a racial element but in London its different in my opinion. Dont mention the New Cross lads as thats a different kettle of fish altogether. If you cannot see that then you dont know much.

Ben Kinsellas death was not a racist murder, but as close to as it can f***ing get. White boys do not front black boys out in London, or even come anywhere near that, that's the rule.

I think you will find a fair chunk of people round here think it was a racist murder, although its so hard to prove and we must not mention things like that in case we upset the applecart and start further gang conflict......It has been noticed since the murder although seperate that fully dressed muslim kids are moving in between the white enclaves of North rd and the bemerton estate.I predict further trouble in the future.......However the sad thing is this story is the same throughout much of London and to allsorts of gangs black,muslim,white,asain,indian,(even 2/3rd generation irish gangs in kilburn) you name it every single country that immigrants come from have a street gang.........................on a side note however the only immigrants not to have gangs are...........THE WELSH....THE SCOTTISH......

 

[ATFC Seagull]

'Yes a few people have been wrongly executed in the distant past'.

That's alright then - it was as long ago as, oooh, the fifties. Hardly the Middle Ages was it? And think about those, such as the Birmingham Six or the Guildford Four, who could well have been wrongly executed had we not abolished it. It's only that long ago because we stopped doing it.

Tut tut. Didn't you read? The Guildford 4 did it. Some bloke said so (he may have been a member of the corrupt organisation that pinned it on them in the first place, I forget).

 

[ATFC Seagull]

Why do people who are against the death penalty go on about the person who has comited the crime, never a metion about the victem or there family these are the people that really do a life sentence

What you're potentially talking about there is a concept called Restorative Justice, which is completely the opposite from the Death Penalty or even custodial sentences.

Or you're talking about revenge, in which case, whilst I can't even begin to imagine what its like to be in such a situation, we can't have the laws based on such ideas.

 

[throbinson]

What you're potentially talking about there is a concept called Restorative Justice, which is completely the opposite from the Death Penalty or even custodial sentences.

Or you're talking about revenge, in which case, whilst I can't even begin to imagine what its like to be in such a situation, we can't have the laws based on such ideas.

Not talking about revenge, imo this country is geared up to helping those who comit these crimes, a good life in prison which i know they get because my father is an ex governer and a new life when they are released. What do the victems get? they get a lifetime of pain

 

[ATFC Seagull]

Not talking about revenge, imo this country is geared up to helping those who comit these crimes, a good life in prison which i know they get because my father is an ex governer and a new life when they are released. What do the victems get? they get a lifetime of pain

Which is why I like the concept of restorative justice. It basically looks at the judicial system from the other way around. Obviously you need to maintain the safety of the public as number 1, but beyond that, the ethos is rather than "how can we punish/deter people?", "what can best be done to make amends for the crime as much as possible?".

This can then be in the sense of the wider community, or the victims/family themselves, either emotionally or practically.

 

[Herne Hill Seagull]

Why do people who are against the death penalty go on about the person who has comited the crime, never a metion about the victem or there family these are the people that really do a life sentence

I haven't said a word about those who commit crimes. I've been arguing about those who don't, but have the crime pinned on them anyway.

In any case, asking the relatives of the victims is hardly likely to get you an objective opinion is it? They are, understandably, the ones most likely to be calling for the death penalty. Such an emotive and important issue needs a more dispassionate and detached consideration precisely because it polarises opinion so strongly.

Easy for me to say, yes, but the only way nonetheless.

 

[m20gull]

i have to agree easy , now i wonder if anyone has ever done a survey on serious crime , ie the percentage of ethnics that commit the crimes and the percentage of the population that are ethnic . i bet it would make scary reading .

These stats are collected and published by the Police and Home Office though I would take some of it with a pinch of salt given how accurately the ethnic origin is recorded. Not scary reading but interesting that there is a clear distinction in certain crimes. In Sussex where 1% of the population is 'black', more or less no 'black' people are convicted for burglary but 10% of robbery convictions are for 'black' people.

There is also a progression in that the proportion of 'black' rises from arrest, through charge, conviction and sentence.

 

[m20gull]

Oh and in response to the original point - NO! That's for lots of reasons but it hardly acts as a deterrent in Texas.