[News] Winter Fuel Payments Are Back

[beorhthelm]

The boomer generation (born between ~1946 and ~1964) are notorious amongst young people today for being selfish and self-entitled.

They had what are now 'luxuries' such as affordable housing, free higher education, decent pensions and competitive wages... yet they are the first to argue, sitting in their mortgage free houses, that even the 'triple-lock' pension is not enough - they still want more, neglecting to appreciate how dire things are for young people today.

Young people today, having to try to save the planet that the boomers have effectively destroyed, while being unable to afford houses to live in, or to start families they can't afford. Crap wages, astronomical student debt, pathetic pensions and so on.

Yet boomers NEVER accept how lucky they had it and how they continue to deprive the young people of today from living any kind of life that they did. This is why young people regard boomers are selfish and self-entitled.

If they had any kind of decency, they would surrender their wealth and give young people a real chance in life.

The biggest tragedy of all is that when the reality of what they have done to this world and to the generations of young people today comes into fruition - they'll all be dead and not around to see it.

they did also live through rationing and/or the 70's, so there's swings and roundabouts.

it's rather tedious though, and false because most boomers know exactly how lucky they are. the problem here is perception and those that expect to jump straight to mid-game of life with a few steps and efforts along the way.

 

[Mustafa II]

You do realise that the vast majority of pensioners are boomers don’t you and will be for the next six years? If your reasoning is correct then none of them should be experiencing any form of hardship, or are you suggesting that there are two tier boomers? Your broad brush categorisation is fatally flawed.

If a pensioner is sitting in a house that is paid off and worth half a million quid - they should be forced to sell it, like young people would have to (if only they were that lucky!), rather than receive f***ing benefits.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

If a pensioner is sitting in a house that is paid off and worth half a million quid - they should be forced to sell it, like young people would have to (if only they were that lucky!), rather than receive f***ing benefits.

Snowflake.

Although I have no idea why the winter fuel benefit isn't means tested. It's only £200 and the current price cap assumes an average annual bill if £1,849. Come to that I don't know why it still exists. It would be better to increase the state pension by £200.

 

[DJ NOBO]

You do realise that the vast majority of pensioners are boomers don’t you and will be for the next six years? If your reasoning is correct then none of them should be experiencing any form of hardship, or are you suggesting that there are two tier boomers? Your broad brush categorisation is fatally flawed.

Not all boomers are rich. But all boomers lived through an era of economic advantages that made becoming comfortably off far easier than for the young adults of today.
As a boomer if you bought a modest house (entirely possible) and maintained a job with a modest salary for 25 or so years (with its final salary pension), you are probably sitting pretty today.
Not the case for other generations.
Boomers lucked out.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

If a pensioner is sitting in a house that is paid off and worth half a million quid - they should be forced to sell it, like young people would have to (if only they were that lucky!), rather than receive f***ing benefits.

You have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. The state pension isn’t a benefit and why would a young person sell their house when it’s paid off? I take it that you will never pay off your mortgage, and that’s no one’s fault other than yours. Jealousy is a horrible thing.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

Not all boomers are rich. But all boomers lived through an era of economic advantages that made becoming comfortably off far easier than for the young adults of today.
As a boomer if you bought a modest house (entirely possible) and maintained a job with a modest salary for 25 or so years (with its final salary pension), you are probably sitting pretty today.
Not the case for other generations.
Boomers lucked out.

Not arguing with that at all, just that Mustafa II thinks ALL boomers are selfish and self entitled.

 

[Mustafa II]

You have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. The state pension isn’t a benefit and why would a young person sell their house when it’s paid off? I take it that you will never pay off your mortgage, and that’s no one’s fault other than yours. Jealousy is a horrible thing.

The Winter Fuel Allowance is a benefit, that any pensioner who owns their own property should not be receiving. They should be forced to sell their homes before being eligible to receive it. Only those with zero or negligible wealth should receive benefits like that - because this is exactly how young people have to live.

Why do boomers accuse younger generations of jealousy? It's the pursuit of fairness, it's not jealousy. The generational wealth inequality is extreme and just not fair. Jealousy is wanting what someone else has- young generations don't even want that, they just want the chance of the prosperous or comfortable lives that boomers were lucky enough to have.

I'm in a good position, partly through luck and (a bit of) hard work, but even my position can be regarded as pitiful to most boomers (except they would just say 'wOrK hArDeR"). I have friends who earn really good money, but are skint all the time - renting, limited savings, shit pension - and it's not through fault of their own, property costs are just so high compared to what the boomers had, and wages relatively poor.

Sadly, it's a ticking time bomb, I don't think anything will change... and it's a crisis that boomers will not be around to see.

...but at the very least, they should have scrapped this winter fuel allowance for all pensioners except those who could genuinely not afford it.

Would love the government to go hard in redistributing the wealth of the wealthy pensioners to the young, to allow them to prosper in the same way.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Back to the thread topic, I personally think the limit is a little high. I would have probably gone for that limit, but made it taxable up to the 35K.

Still the right policy to take it away from those that don't need it, but the original limit was a little too low (like myself and so many many others have been saying), particularly where people who qualified for benefits weren't claiming them. Glad it's sorted now though

Now the details are out, does it also fulfill @Bozza's wishes as I know from the discussions we had at the time that the original implementation definitely didn't ?

 

[North of Robertsbridge]

I agree with the change, but can’t help thinking it would have been sensible to set it at this level (more or less the average UK annual income) the first time around

Neither of us will get the new WFA, but I like to think that most people who genuinely need it probably well

On the other hand, as a Lab contributor during the last election (had a nice letter from some party wonk telling me I was in the top 2% of donors), I have less spare dosh now so won’t be giving much to the party until the next election campaign

 

[Javeaseagull]

The Winter Fuel Allowance is a benefit, that any pensioner who owns their own property should not be receiving. They should be forced to sell their homes before being eligible to receive it. Only those with zero or negligible wealth should receive benefits like that - because this is exactly how young people have to live.

Why do boomers accuse younger generations of jealousy? It's the pursuit of fairness, it's not jealousy. The generational wealth inequality is extreme and just not fair. Jealousy is wanting what someone else has- young generations don't even want that, they just want the chance of the prosperous or comfortable lives that boomers were lucky enough to have.

I'm in a good position, partly through luck and (a bit of) hard work, but even my position can be regarded as pitiful to most boomers (except they would just say 'wOrK hArDeR"). I have friends who earn really good money, but are skint all the time - renting, limited savings, shit pension - and it's not through fault of their own, property costs are just so high compared to what the boomers had, and wages relatively poor.

Sadly, it's a ticking time bomb, I don't think anything will change... and it's a crisis that boomers will not be around to see.

...but at the very least, they should have scrapped this winter fuel allowance for all pensioners except those who could genuinely not afford it.

Would love the government to go hard in redistributing the wealth of the wealthy pensioners to the young, to allow them to prosper in the same way.

You are being very simplistic and blaming all your woes on the boomer generation, aren’t you? Yes in hindsight, we had it good. I can assure you it did not feel like it at the time. Why are you blaming boomers for selling off council houses, charging for higher education and trying to sell off the NHS along with the rest of the family silver? Your enemy is the Tories and Maggie Thatcher in particular.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

The Winter Fuel Allowance is a benefit, that any pensioner who owns their own property should not be receiving. They should be forced to sell their homes before being eligible to receive it. Only those with zero or negligible wealth should receive benefits like that - because this is exactly how young people have to live.

Why do boomers accuse younger generations of jealousy? It's the pursuit of fairness, it's not jealousy. The generational wealth inequality is extreme and just not fair. Jealousy is wanting what someone else has- young generations don't even want that, they just want the chance of the prosperous or comfortable lives that boomers were lucky enough to have.

I'm in a good position, partly through luck and (a bit of) hard work, but even my position can be regarded as pitiful to most boomers (except they would just say 'wOrK hArDeR"). I have friends who earn really good money, but are skint all the time - renting, limited savings, shit pension - and it's not through fault of their own, property costs are just so high compared to what the boomers had, and wages relatively poor.

Sadly, it's a ticking time bomb, I don't think anything will change... and it's a crisis that boomers will not be around to see.

...but at the very least, they should have scrapped this winter fuel allowance for all pensioners except those who could genuinely not afford it.

Would love the government to go hard in redistributing the wealth of the wealthy pensioners to the young, to allow them to prosper in the same way.

Your last paragraph.

The majority of wealthy pensioners do distribute their wealth to the young. The young being their children and even grandchildren. I’m sorry that the boomers in your family didn’t see fit to help you out, but there’s no need to take your bitterness out on those whose families did.

 

[Bozza]

Back to the thread topic, I personally think the limit is a little high. I would have probably gone for that limit, but made it taxable up to the 35K.

Still the right policy to take it away from those that don't need it, but the original limit was a little too low (like myself and so many many others have been saying), particularly where people who qualified for benefits weren't claiming them. Glad it's sorted now though

Now the details are out, does it also fulfill @Bozza's wishes as I know from the discussions we had at the time that the original implementation definitely didn't ?

I've not said anything yet, primarily because it does feel as though the threshold is on the high side. I probably wouldn't have guessed the threshold would start with a 2, let alone a 3.

And by saying it feels high makes me look a bit of a dick, given my crusade on this topic.

But I'd rather it be too high than too low and, in the big scheme of things, this isn't costing a lot of money.

 

[cjd]

Don't see why you're so angry, swanning about in France

Harold, I swan about in England too. Just enjoyed the last five days there and got home here in France 1 minute after the announcement that Labour finally admitted that Rachel Reeves f***ed up with the WFA. debacle.

 

[Mustafa II]

Your last paragraph.

The majority of wealthy pensioners do distribute their wealth to the young. The young being their children and even grandchildren. I’m sorry that the boomers in your family didn’t see fit to help you out, but there’s no need to take your bitterness out on those whose families did.

You think that it's a functioning society if poor young people are relying on their (if they're lucky) wealthy parents generosity or in most cases their DEATHS to prosper (again, if they're 'lucky' enough to still be young enough to make the most of it).

I'm not sure why you're trying to make this personal. My parents are boomers and are relatively wealthy - but I'm not relying or thinking about that, it's macabre. I prefer to generate my own wealth, thanks. As I'm sure most other young people do.

How about the young people without wealthy parents? How about the people whose parents wealth will be lost to elderly care? It's not a functional system to expect generational wealth to trickle down. It doesn't.

 

[cjd]

Well that is patent nonsense since it clearly won't affect your commitment to the Tories, or Reform, or whoever it is you have taken a shine to

My dear Harold, I don't vote for the Tories or Reform and at present have no intention of doing so. What I would like is for this shambles of Rachel Reeves and her cronies to improve significantly , so we DON'T finish up with Nigel Farage in charge. This is something that the many thickos on here are failing to grasp in their desperation for defending the indefensible.

 

[cjd]

Well that is patent nonsense since it clearly won't affect your commitment to the Tories, or Reform, or whoever it is you have taken a shine to

Harold...I despair of your ability to analyse my thoughts. You are obviously, a highly intelligent man. How can you so consistently get this wrong ?

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

You think that it's a functioning society if poor young people are relying on their (if they're lucky) wealthy parents generosity or in most cases their DEATHS to prosper (again, if they're 'lucky' enough to still be young enough to make the most of it).

I'm not sure why you're trying to make this personal. My parents are boomers and are relatively wealthy - but I'm not relying or thinking about that, it's macabre. I prefer to generate my own wealth, thanks. As I'm sure most other young people do.

How about the young people without wealthy parents? How about the people whose parents wealth will be lost to elderly care? It's not a functional system to expect generational wealth to trickle down. It doesn't.

I only responded to you because you said that ALL boomers are selfish and self entitled. Now you’re saying that some aren’t wealthy, which is blatantly obvious. Make your mind up.

 

[cjd]

I take it as an old person who votes you won't be doing what @Mellotron implies and switching your vote to labour to reward the bribe?

Given they have been pilloried for the original policy, pilloried for not immediately U turning, pilloried for the prediction they may U turn and now pilloried for U turning, nobody can suggest they did this to harvest votes.

Therefore the only explanation is they have had a think about this, realized they made an error and have sought to correct it.

I mean, what a disgraceful way to carry on.

They shouldn't of been elected in the first place, and shouldn't of agreed to form a government when they were, because they should of realized they were USELESS. Only Nigel can...... (etc. etc.)

Harold, stop worrying about what I think. You simply can't go around answering every post who you disagree with on here.

I do actually like you from what I see on here very much, but give us all the chance to vent our spleen occasionally without continually having to be brought to account. You have opinions. I have opinions.

The only issue I have today is I seem to have offended Lady Whistledown, with my choice of words ( used hugely in my childhood whilst living in the Midlands ). The rest I don't give a monkees. I said what I felt and I'm no fool when it comes to care of the elderly, and the disgusting thoughts of so many on this forum.

 

[cjd]

Any argument you may or may not have had has gone out of the window for me when you resort to that.

I was unaware that the word I used was so uncommon. It was widely used when I was brought up in the Midlands...( a long time ago)

I acknowledge your thoughts and accept your admonishment. Having looked up on the internet of todays view , I will not use it again.

 

[Bodian]

Not bad as a backtracking grovel.

I’d have plumped for £32,500….what are your views on the threshold?

I was surprised to be honest. I would have felt that they had done the right thing by going for the low to mid 20s myself.

£35k is more than I earned until the last couple of years, and I'm approaching retirement. I will almost certainly now qualify for WFA when I do retire (if it stays at this level - which isn't a given) - but I don't think I'll actually 'need' it.