[News] Winter Fuel Payments Are Back

[Weststander]

Not all boomers are rich. But all boomers lived through an era of economic advantages that made becoming comfortably off far easier than for the young adults of today.
As a boomer if you bought a modest house (entirely possible) and maintained a job with a modest salary for 25 or so years (with its final salary pension), you are probably sitting pretty today.
Not the case for other generations.
Boomers lucked out.

2.9m UK pensioners rent their home.
38% of pensioners don’t receive an occupational pension.

Millions of OAP’s didn’t luck out.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

If a pensioner is sitting in a house that is paid off and worth half a million quid - they should be forced to sell it, like young people would have to (if only they were that lucky!), rather than receive f***ing benefits.

Very few pensioners have a house worth half a million quid. I live in Newhaven, and my house is worth half of that. Those that live north of the Home Counties certainly don’t have one even that high.
Anyone who divorced, or women who looked after children in the 60s and 70s won’t even have that, so dont lump all pensioners together.
Many women weren’t allowed to join company pension schemes because they worked part-time.
Some paid ‘small stamp’ because they were told their husband’s contributions covered them. This is why the WASPI women are fighting for some sort of recompense, because there is a vast ravine between men, final salary pensions, and a living wage.

The State Pension is less than the living wage. Your ignorance of how many pensioners are coping is astounding.

 

[Gary1]

Just to clear it up for those jumping in with both feet it is £35K household income not each person.
I imagine there are many pensioners who have mortgages or rent to pay. I know several people who are coming up to retirement age and still rent, you think Christ how are they going to live if they’re paying out £800+ a month in rent. It’s easy to just say a group of people don’t need a benefit because you judge them on your circumstances but as we know life is so much more complicated than that.

I’ve heard so many people (seemingly younger ) who say they shouldn’t be paying towards pensioners benefits whether it be heating allowance or state pension but that is how a decent society functions. Otherwise we get into whether people should be paying for others kids to get a state education, for others to get a drs or hospital appointment, to see an NHS dentist, for the mum to be to get unlimited access to maternity care and so on. We all surely want to be part of a decent society who look after others.

 

[DJ NOBO]

2.9m UK pensioners rent their home.
38% of pensioners don’t receive an occupational pension.

Millions of OAP’s didn’t luck out.

When looking at the outcomes for 13 million people there will be a number that for whatever reason didn’t prosper. And hopefully the wfa helps them a bit.

The average person had a better chance of building a good life as a boomer than a young person now though, I’d imagine.

That said Your stats are higher than I would have thought Tbf

 

[LamieRobertson]

Just to clear it up for those jumping in with both feet it is £35K household income not each person.
I imagine there are many pensioners who have mortgages or rent to pay. I know several people who are coming up to retirement age and still rent, you think Christ how are they going to live if they’re paying out £800+ a month in rent. It’s easy to just say a group of people don’t need a benefit because you judge them on your circumstances but as we know life is so much more complicated than that.

I’ve heard so many people (seemingly younger ) who say they shouldn’t be paying towards pensioners benefits whether it be heating allowance or state pension but that is how a decent society functions. Otherwise we get into whether people should be paying for others kids to get a state education, for others to get a drs or hospital appointment, to see an NHS dentist, for the mum to be to get unlimited access to maternity care and so on. We all surely want to be part of a decent society who look after others.

Well said

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I was unaware that the word I used was so uncommon. It was widely used when I was brought up in the Midlands...( a long time ago)

I acknowledge your thoughts and accept your admonishment. Having looked up on the internet of todays view , I will not use it again.

Maybe you can row back on other aspects of your posts as well? Your language, and personal barbs, do leave a lot to be desired.

 

[Weststander]

When looking at the outcomes for 13 million people there will be a number that for whatever reason didn’t prosper. And hopefully the wfa helps them a bit.

The average person had a better chance of building a good life as a boomer than a young person now though, I’d imagine.

That said Your stats are higher than I would have thought Tbf

I don’t believe in the age group generalisations. We get a distorted view in this wealthy neck of the woods with countless households of folk age 40 upwards sitting on significant equity. But even here there’ll be incredibly poor people in big numbers across all age groups, away from leafy roads. Plus people are just a marriage break up, redundancy or mental breakdown/physical health bad luck moment from losing almost everything.

I do feel for all those of any age group who are compelled to rent against their hopes and dreams.

 

[Weststander]

Just to clear it up for those jumping in with both feet it is £35K household income not each person.
I imagine there are many pensioners who have mortgages or rent to pay. I know several people who are coming up to retirement age and still rent, you think Christ how are they going to live if they’re paying out £800+ a month in rent. It’s easy to just say a group of people don’t need a benefit because you judge them on your circumstances but as we know life is so much more complicated than that.

I’ve heard so many people (seemingly younger ) who say they shouldn’t be paying towards pensioners benefits whether it be heating allowance or state pension but that is how a decent society functions. Otherwise we get into whether people should be paying for others kids to get a state education, for others to get a drs or hospital appointment, to see an NHS dentist, for the mum to be to get unlimited access to maternity care and so on. We all surely want to be part of a decent society who look after others.

Isn’t it all OAP households where neither OAP earns over £35k? So a couple with income each of £34k would still receive the WFP. HMRC don’t have a database of household income due to independent taxation, unless people have voluntarily gone down the means testing route.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Harold, stop worrying about what I think. You simply can't go around answering every post who you disagree with on here.

I do actually like you from what I see on here very much, but give us all the chance to vent our spleen occasionally without continually having to be brought to account. You have opinions. I have opinions.

The only issue I have today is I seem to have offended Lady Whistledown, with my choice of words ( used hugely in my childhood whilst living in the Midlands ). The rest I don't give a monkees. I said what I felt and I'm no fool when it comes to care of the elderly, and the disgusting thoughts of so many on this forum.

I owe you an apology.
I have a difficulty reading some people from their posts.
I have made an error here.
let's see if I can learn....

 

[abc]

Would you have preferred her to say that we can't afford it?
Call me naive but I fear this may have triggered Labour's detractors to ask:
"But how can the country afford it?"

Or maybe you think she should say that we could always have afforded it,
and only made the initial change for a laugh, or to be nasty to old working-class Tories?
Or because "we are just thick and useless and don't know what we're doing".

There may be things I dislike about Reeves, but I would have to limbo-dance through a swamp of whataboutery for this 'U turn' to become one of them

As I said, I would have preferred her to be honest and admit she got it wrong and will find the money by other means - cuts elsewhere, increased taxes or whatever. I really don’t follow the rest of your post, sorry

 

[zefarelly]

Yeah, but old people moan and vote.

THis is the crux of it. We're ruled and led by Donkeys

No offence to DOnkeys.

I've given up on politics, theyre all ****s. This is a massive Daily Mail decision. Poorly considered, idiotically executed and f***ing spinelessly reversed. Thousands of greedy selfish pensioners will now be leeching funds from services that need it.

This country is morally corrupt . . . .much like most of the world at the moment.

 

[cjd]

When looking at the outcomes for 13 million people there will be a number that for whatever reason didn’t prosper. And hopefully the wfa helps them a bit.

The average person had a better chance of building a good life as a boomer than a young person now though, I’d imagine.

That said Your stats are higher than I would have thought Tbf

Maybe you can row back on other aspects of your posts as well? Your language, and personal barbs, do leave a lot to be desired.

I,ll never row back on you HT. Never.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I,ll never row back on you HT. Never.

get a grip.

 

[Weststander]

get a grip.

 

[DJ NOBO]

Just to clear it up for those jumping in with both feet it is £35K household income not each person.
I imagine there are many pensioners who have mortgages or rent to pay. I know several people who are coming up to retirement age and still rent, you think Christ how are they going to live if they’re paying out £800+ a month in rent. It’s easy to just say a group of people don’t need a benefit because you judge them on your circumstances but as we know life is so much more complicated than that.

I’ve heard so many people (seemingly younger ) who say they shouldn’t be paying towards pensioners benefits whether it be heating allowance or state pension but that is how a decent society functions. Otherwise we get into whether people should be paying for others kids to get a state education, for others to get a drs or hospital appointment, to see an NHS dentist, for the mum to be to get unlimited access to maternity care and so on. We all surely want to be part of a decent society who look after others.

That word covers a lot of ground, in terms of financial means. I would imagine young people do not object to paying towards elderly people who are in poverty.
They object to subsidising pensioners towards the other end of the scale. And they’d have a point, in a decent society.
That is to an extent settled by today’s announcement. Which is good.

 

[abc]

That is an excellent and predictable boomer response. Thank you for exemplifying my point.

Boomers (sitting in their mortgage free £500k-£1m houses with decent income from generous pensions) to young people (£100k student debt, renting for £1,200 per month, £36k graduate wages, £15k in their private pension pot at 30) - "sToP bEiNg So BiTtErR, sToP BlAmINg OtHeR PeOpLe, WoRk HaRdEr!!!!"

According to your criteria I’m not a boomer which undermines your first point. However, you may be shocked to discover that every generation has challenges (try the 3M unemployed and interest rates over 15% in the 80s) and every generation finds a way forward. But trust me, wallowing in your own self pity will not help you personally.

 

[BenGarfield]

Don't see why you're so angry, swanning about in France

For someone on the outside of this debate triggered by the reinstatement of the winter fuel allowance because i believe in a different economic paradigm, its entertaining seeing you scrapping between yourselves. This is also an opportunity to reply to Harold Wilson`s question to me some time ago as to why, even though the MMT analysis is correct, the idea that government economics is like a household persists.

Mainstream economics resists MMT because it exposes how fiscal and monetary policies serve the rich and powerful. The mainstream’s reliance on borrowing, bond issuance, and monetary policy benefits financial elites, while MMT proponents assert that a monetarily sovereign state does not need to borrow. The “divide and rule” tactic, seen in the UK’s winter fuel allowance debate, reinforces social divisions to justify austerity, masking the state’s fiscal capacity to fund public goods. This resistance stems from the threat MMT poses to elite power, neoliberal ideology, and political narratives. I suggest people read Bill Mitchell’s blog (Billy Blog), Warren Mosler’s Seven Deadly Innocent Frauds, or Kelton’s The Deficit Myth, or the paper published by UCL, The Self Financing state

 

[darkwolf666]

Where does it state the £35000 is per household ? If that is the case I cannot see how 75% of pensioners will receive it ( although that is only my perception ).

Apparently I may have this wrong, and that it’s per person… if so, I really don’t get why a household with an income up to £70,000 should be getting fuel allowance, it makes no sense…

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

For someone on the outside of this debate triggered by the reinstatement of the winter fuel allowance because i believe in a different economic paradigm, its entertaining seeing you scrapping between yourselves. This is also an opportunity to reply to Harold Wilson`s question to me some time ago as to why, even though the MMT analysis is correct, the idea that government economics is like a household persists.

Mainstream economics resists MMT because it exposes how fiscal and monetary policies serve the rich and powerful. The mainstream’s reliance on borrowing, bond issuance, and monetary policy benefits financial elites, while MMT proponents assert that a monetarily sovereign state does not need to borrow. The “divide and rule” tactic, seen in the UK’s winter fuel allowance debate, reinforces social divisions to justify austerity, masking the state’s fiscal capacity to fund public goods. This resistance stems from the threat MMT poses to elite power, neoliberal ideology, and political narratives. I suggest people read Bill Mitchell’s blog (Billy Blog), Warren Mosler’s Seven Deadly Innocent Frauds, or Kelton’s The Deficit Myth, or the paper published by UCL, The Self Financing state

Always happy to keep you entertained.
And I admire your eyesight; your ability to see us tiny mortals from aloft Mount Olympus.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I,ll never row back on you HT. Never.

I,ll never row back on you HT. Never.

While I'm happy to revise some of my preconceptions about others, you might consider revising some of yours