[News] Winter Fuel Payments Are Back

[GT49er]

So - thoughts on the £35k threshold?

OK, serious question, I'll come up with my personal serious answer (I realise others may disagree, but that won't change my answer!) Personally, I think it's too high - this country (or the government anyway) isn't awash with money.
When the payments were first introduced they were paid to everyone of age. Means testing is an expensive business - administration, adjudication, appeals, tribunals, etc, and you could make a case - and somebody probably did - that it didn't cost much more if you just cut out the bureaucracy and paid it universally.
Still cost a lot the country can't afford though. We do, however, already have an up and running means test in this country; been around for years - social security, income support and now pension credit, and as always, that has been the threshold for other benefits. Get pension credit? Then you get a free TV licence if you're over 75, free NHS dentistry, etc. If you don't qualify for pension credit, you don't. That's it, black and white.
So, cutting back WFA to those who meet the threshold for Pension Credit and all those sorts of other benefits seems like a perfectly logical and sensible step to me. And yes, it did mean I personally stopped getting my WFA!
So, FWIW, I think the Government should have ridden out the storm and held firm. As I said, others may disagree - but that's not my problem!

 

[abc]

I have mixed feelings about the u turn itself, but what really annoys me is Reeves claiming they are doing it because she can afford to as a result of turning around the economy.

Pure dishonest spin. I can respect ‘sorry, we got this wrong and have listened’ but not this.

 

[GT49er]

Very few people turn down 'free' money. Especially that generation which is infamous for being so selfish and self-entitled.

When it was introduced, I asked if there was a way I could refuse it. I was told, no way (and no, I'm not filthy rich - I didn't get it when it was cut down to Pension Credit level, but I will again now).

 

[abc]

Very few people turn down 'free' money. Especially that generation which is infamous for being so selfish and self-entitled.

Why do you say pensioners are infamous for being selfish and self entitled?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

OK, serious question, I'll come up with my personal serious answer (I realise others may disagree, but that won't change my answer!) Personally, I think it's too high - this country (or the government anyway) isn't awash with money.
When the payments were first introduced they were paid to everyone of age. Means testing is an expensive business - administration, adjudication, appeals, tribunals, etc, and you could make a case - and somebody probably did - that it didn't cost much more if you just cut out the bureaucracy and paid it universally.
Still cost a lot the country can't afford though. We do, however, already have an up and running means test in this country; been around for years - social security, income support and now pension credit, and as always, that has been the threshold for other benefits. Get pension credit? Then you get a free TV licence if you're over 75, free NHS dentistry, etc. If you don't qualify for pension credit, you don't. That's it, black and white.
So, cutting back WFA to those who meet the threshold for Pension Credit and all those sorts of other benefits seems like a perfectly logical and sensible step to me. And yes, it did mean I personally stopped getting my WFA!
So, FWIW, I think the Government should have ridden out the storm and held firm. As I said, others may disagree - but that's not my problem!

I am pretty much with you. Yes.

Bit more nuance: I am relaxed about the idea of raising the threshold a bit, but £35K seems too high.
Ironically I was more in tune with something Farage mentioned (I think): £20K-ish
Me? Agree with Nigel?
Well a stopped-cock is correct twice a day, so once in 20 years ain't so special.

To add, I suspect that every seriously-disadvantaged pensioner has now had their say on radio phone ins,
along with the hundreds of people offended on their behalf.
And of course Labour will now be belittled for the U turn.
Luckily, in the great 'optics' competition one only has to glance right to see what we could *have won
in the last general election.

*Sorry, any Reform party members reading, I meant 'of'. My bad.

Apologies for any spelling errors

 

[Mustafa II]

Why do you say pensioners are infamous for being selfish and self entitled?

The boomer generation (born between ~1946 and ~1964) are notorious amongst young people today for being selfish and self-entitled.

They had what are now 'luxuries' such as affordable housing, free higher education, decent pensions and competitive wages... yet they are the first to argue, sitting in their mortgage free houses, that even the 'triple-lock' pension is not enough - they still want more, neglecting to appreciate how dire things are for young people today.

Young people today, having to try to save the planet that the boomers have effectively destroyed, while being unable to afford houses to live in, or to start families they can't afford. Crap wages, astronomical student debt, pathetic pensions and so on.

Yet boomers NEVER accept how lucky they had it and how they continue to deprive the young people of today from living any kind of life that they did. This is why young people regard boomers are selfish and self-entitled.

If they had any kind of decency, they would surrender their wealth and give young people a real chance in life.

The biggest tragedy of all is that when the reality of what they have done to this world and to the generations of young people today comes into fruition - they'll all be dead and not around to see it.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Useful video explaining how it will all work and not getting bogged down with party politics

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

Very few people turn down 'free' money. Especially that generation which is infamous for being so selfish and self-entitled.

Perhaps you shouldn’t judge people by your own standards, eh?

 

[Mustafa II]

Perhaps you shouldn’t judge people by your own standards, eh?

If you are in the position to be able to reject £300 of government money, then you are in a better position that 95% of young people.

Yes, I would gladly accept £300 of government money. My mortgage won't even be paid off by retirement (and I'm one of the lucky ones, being able to get a mortgage).

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

The boomer generation (born between ~1946 and ~1964) are notorious amongst young people today for being selfish and self-entitled.

They had what are now 'luxuries' such as affordable housing, free higher education, decent pensions and competitive wages... yet they are the first to argue, sitting in their mortgage free houses, that even the 'triple-lock' pension is not enough - they still want more, neglecting to appreciate how dire things are for young people today.

Young people today, having to try to save the planet that the boomers have effectively destroyed, while being unable to afford houses to live in, or to start families they can't afford. Crap wages, astronomical student debt, pathetic pensions and so on.

Yet boomers NEVER accept how lucky they had it and how they continue to deprive the young people of today from living any kind of life that they did. This is why young people regard boomers are selfish and self-entitled.

If they had any kind of decency, they would surrender their wealth and give young people a real chance in life.

The biggest tragedy of all is that when the reality of what they have done to this world and to the generations of young people today comes into fruition - they'll all be dead and not around to see it.

Are there no boomers in your family then, or are you immaculate conception?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I have mixed feelings about the u turn itself, but what really annoys me is Reeves claiming they are doing it because she can afford to as a result of turning around the economy.

Pure dishonest spin. I can respect ‘sorry, we got this wrong and have listened’ but not this.

Would you have preferred her to say that we can't afford it?
Call me naive but I fear this may have triggered Labour's detractors to ask:
"But how can the country afford it?"

Or maybe you think she should say that we could always have afforded it,
and only made the initial change for a laugh, or to be nasty to old working-class Tories?
Or because "we are just thick and useless and don't know what we're doing".

There may be things I dislike about Reeves, but I would have to limbo-dance through a swamp of whataboutery for this 'U turn' to become one of them

 

[withdeanwombat]

Well, well, well. I’ll get my w.f.a back. Some good done for homeless charities, then.

 

[Mustafa II]

Are there no boomers in your family then, or are you immaculate conception?

Yep, the boomers in my family are just as bad. It's a very consistent trend throughout that generation.

That generation were RAISED to believe that they truly deserve everything they work for, despite it being disproportionate to what people work for today. The reality is that they were just very, very lucky to be born at the right time in regards to wealth acquisition.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The boomer generation (born between ~1946 and ~1964) are notorious amongst young people today for being selfish and self-entitled.

They had what are now 'luxuries' such as affordable housing, free higher education, decent pensions and competitive wages... yet they are the first to argue, sitting in their mortgage free houses, that even the 'triple-lock' pension is not enough - they still want more, neglecting to appreciate how dire things are for young people today.

Young people today, having to try to save the planet that the boomers have effectively destroyed, while being unable to afford houses to live in, or to start families they can't afford. Crap wages, astronomical student debt, pathetic pensions and so on.

Yet boomers NEVER accept how lucky they had it and how they continue to deprive the young people of today from living any kind of life that they did. This is why young people regard boomers are selfish and self-entitled.

If they had any kind of decency, they would surrender their wealth and give young people a real chance in life.

The biggest tragedy of all is that when the reality of what they have done to this world and to the generations of young people today comes into fruition - they'll all be dead and not around to see it.

There is a great deal of truth in this.

My pal Bob is 82, and leads a frugal life. But his mortgage is paid off. He rations heating because he doesn't like paying bills that were higher than they used to be. Frugality can be a reflex. I sometimes get into a needlessly frugal groove (I get very agitated about Mrs T wasting water, and putting the oven on 15 minutes before she plans to put the food in, for example; but it doesn't affect my 'wealth').

And despite keeping the house cool in winter Bob spent some of his winter fuel allowance on a new guitar.

I'm not sure I agree with you about expecting boomers to surrender their wealth, however.
I just wish they'd stop obsessing about 'the boats' and backing parties that are punishing the young.
Paradoxically that includes Labour because anything they do that disadvantages boomers is met with a backlash,
and the backlash is milked by the right, and before you know it the blue blobs will be back in charge.
I caught a glimpse of the Mail and Express headlines today. f*** me.
You'd think Starmer was Dracula and Reeves the Wicked Witch of the West

 

[abc]

The boomer generation (born between ~1946 and ~1964) are notorious amongst young people today for being selfish and self-entitled.

They had what are now 'luxuries' such as affordable housing, free higher education, decent pensions and competitive wages... yet they are the first to argue, sitting in their mortgage free houses, that even the 'triple-lock' pension is not enough - they still want more, neglecting to appreciate how dire things are for young people today.

Young people today, having to try to save the planet that the boomers have effectively destroyed, while being unable to afford houses to live in, or to start families they can't afford. Crap wages, astronomical student debt, pathetic pensions and so on.

Yet boomers NEVER accept how lucky they had it and how they continue to deprive the young people of today from living any kind of life that they did. This is why young people regard boomers are selfish and self-entitled.

If they had any kind of decency, they would surrender their wealth and give young people a real chance in life.

The biggest tragedy of all is that when the reality of what they have done to this world and to the generations of young people today comes into fruition - they'll all be dead and not around to see it.

Rather than argue the points, I’m just going to say that I am so glad I don’t have your bitter view of the world. You do come across rather ‘woe is me’ and hard done by.
I hope you manage to find some joy in your life rather than blame everyone else for your troubles, whatever they may be.

 

[Mustafa II]

Rather than argue the points, I’m just going to say that I am so glad I don’t have your bitter view of the world. You do come across rather ‘woe is me’ and hard done by.
I hope you manage to find some joy in your life rather than blame everyone else for your troubles, whatever they may be.

That is an excellent and predictable boomer response. Thank you for exemplifying my point.

Boomers (sitting in their mortgage free £500k-£1m houses with decent income from generous pensions) to young people (£100k student debt, renting for £1,200 per month, £36k graduate wages, £15k in their private pension pot at 30) - "sToP bEiNg So BiTtErR, sToP BlAmINg OtHeR PeOpLe, WoRk HaRdEr!!!!"

 

[Boys 9d]

I'm glad I was born in 1942 and therefore not be considered selfish and self-entitled

 

[DJ NOBO]

If you have paid into the state pension, you will get it...by the way ,twat.

You don’t pay into a state pension. You make National Insurance contributions which qualifies you for the state pension after a certain number of years (35 for me).
I understand this means it is easier for the govt to change who qualifies. But would be interested to hear from any pension experts whether I’m wrong on this, and whether my first paragraph matters.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

Yep, the boomers in my family are just as bad. It's a very consistent trend throughout that generation.

That generation were RAISED to believe that they truly deserve everything they work for, despite it being disproportionate to what people work for today. The reality is that they were just very, very lucky to be born at the right time in regards to wealth acquisition.

You do realise that the vast majority of pensioners are boomers don’t you and will be for the next six years? If your reasoning is correct then none of them should be experiencing any form of hardship, or are you suggesting that there are two tier boomers? Your broad brush categorisation is fatally flawed.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

That is an excellent and predictable boomer response. Thank you for exemplifying my point.

Boomers (sitting in their mortgage free £500k-£1m houses with decent income from generous pensions) to young people (£100k student debt, renting for £1,200 per month, £36k graduate wages, £15k in their private pension pot at 30) - "sToP bEiNg So BiTtErR, sToP BlAmINg OtHeR PeOpLe, WoRk HaRdEr!!!!"

Look - an incel......