United States of Europe....Is this what you want?

[Herr Tubthumper]

The EU has some sensible ideas but many, many ridiculous ones, but what it has robbed the working man of is ambition. The EU is slow motion socialism and is no good for this country.

I would say that what has robbed your working man is his constant whining and blaming of everything under the sun for his woes. Has your UK working man ever considered the issue might be their own doing, their own lack of ambition, stupidity or nous? The working man of Germany has exactly the same EU to contend with and their economy and manufacturing base goes from strenth to stength. How is this? Especially given that the EU, according to you, has robbed every man of their ambition and is "no good."? The EU does a lot of good for business and industry. Some see this and prosper. Others like you fail to see the economic benefits due to your little island territorial mentality.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

That's the ideology not the facts! Workers pay is being driven down by immigration and ruthless adherence to pathetic EU edicts.

Pay is being driven down by market forces, huge corporations, and zero protection from the government.

 

[Brighton Mod]

I would say that what has robbed your working man is his constant whining and blaming of everything under the sun for his woes. Has your UK working man ever considered the issue might be their own doing, their own lack of ambition, stupidity or nous? The working man of Germany has exactly the same EU to contend with and their economy and manufacturing base goes from strenth to stength. How is this? Especially given that the EU, according to you, has robbed every man of their ambition and is "no good."? The EU does a lot of good for business and industry. Some see this and prosper. Others like you fail to see the economic benefits due to your little island territorial mentality.

Mein Herr, I am far from a Little Englander having traded in Belgium where the corporation tax is 50% and where you can get almost anything you want on the 'black', thus keeping wages low and taxes not being paid. I engage overseas workers from Poland, Hungary, Rumania, Iraq, South Africa and am happy to do so because these individuals provide me with what I want, punctuality, service and completion. However whilst there are aspects of Eu Law that are helpful to both employer and employee, much is designed to keep the working man in his place at the expense of business that becomes uncompetitive against our middle and far eastern rivals and hence leads to unemployment. Yes Germany has become the manufacturing powerhouse of Europe and sell s much inot the EU but at what expense, that will be jobs from Spain, Portugal, Italy etc as they lose their manufacturing base. If the Eu leadership was elected then they may have more credance, but then what do the Europeans know about democracy with their history of dictators across the continent over the past two centuries. If we get a vote on membership I think it will be closer than many think.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Mein Herr, I am far from a Little Englander having traded in Belgium where the corporation tax is 50% and where you can get almost anything you want on the 'black', thus keeping wages low and taxes not being paid. I engage overseas workers from Poland, Hungary, Rumania, Iraq, South Africa and am happy to do so because these individuals provide me with what I want, punctuality, service and completion. However whilst there are aspects of Eu Law that are helpful to both employer and employee, much is designed to keep the working man in his place at the expense of business that becomes uncompetitive against our middle and far eastern rivals and hence leads to unemployment. Yes Germany has become the manufacturing powerhouse of Europe and sell s much inot the EU but at what expense, that will be jobs from Spain, Portugal, Italy etc as they lose their manufacturing base. If the Eu leadership was elected then they may have more credance, but then what do the Europeans know about democracy with their history of dictators across the continent over the past two centuries. If we get a vote on membership I think it will be closer than many think.

I think Italy, Spain and Portugal's current issues are more to do with their borrowing than competition with Germany's manufacturing. And the the EU is elected. Next.

 

[Brighton Mod]

Von Rumpoye, Burusso, Kinnock, Mandelson elected? Must have missed something there.

 

[The Large One]

Von Rumpoye, Burusso, Kinnock, Mandelson elected? Must have missed something there.

The protocols by which Van Rompuy is elected President is the same way David Cameron is elected leader - by a closed membership. You don't have to be an MP to be a party leader.

 

[Brighton Mod]

The protocols by which Van Rompuy is elected President is the same way David Cameron is elected leader - by a closed membership. You don't have to be an MP to be a party leader.

And who were the other options for the post and what were their policies?

 

[Brighton Mod]

Have I said anything about the House of Lords? Bizarre

 

[stripeyshark]

Yes please,
then after that perhaps United States of the World.

Imagine all the people, sharing all the world...

 

[The Large One]

And who were the other options for the post and what were their policies?

Do you appear to think that Van Rompuy is President of the EU? He is not. He is President of the European Council, a non-legislative arm of the EU, and a largely non-political post; it's an administrative one. Among those proposed at the time of his election was Tony Blair - don't know why.

With your take on elected heads of state, one assumes you're also anti-monarchy?

As an aside, John Major was made Prime Minister with a total vote of 185 people.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

3:00 mins in Farage

 

[Brighton Mod]

The House of Lords is another issue, however it can affect and influence law, but it does not set it. This is not a like for like comparison.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

I would say that what has robbed your working man is his constant whining and blaming of everything under the sun for his woes. Has your UK working man ever considered the issue might be their own doing, their own lack of ambition, stupidity or nous? The working man of Germany has exactly the same EU to contend with and their economy and manufacturing base goes from strenth to stength. How is this? Especially given that the EU, according to you, has robbed every man of their ambition and is "no good."? The EU does a lot of good for business and industry. Some see this and prosper. Others like you fail to see the economic benefits due to your little island territorial mentality.

The German working man has the support of strong trade unions who strive alongside management for continuous improvement. Thatcher destroyed the unions in this country , there is no ambition to consistently better ourselves because the balance of power has shifted too far towards the bosses and the incentives have been taken away in the pursuit of increasing profit margins.

 

[BBassic]

This is a terrible idea but only because there will no doubt be an upsurge in voting for UKIP and the BNP.

 

[cunning fergus]

The protocols by which Van Rompuy is elected President is the same way David Cameron is elected leader - by a closed membership. You don't have to be an MP to be a party leader.

You are not seriously representing that the basis of how a UK political party elects its leader (who is merely a prospective UK PM) is the same, and therefore justifies how the President of the European Council is elected?

Since the Lisbon Treaty, the EU Council has a president, along with other posts like Foreign Minister and diplomatic service. The EU Council was also afforded EU institutional rights, which effectively means as President of that institution he is the de facto President of the EU.

http://consilium.europa.eu/uedocs/cmsUpload/Background-President_of_the_EC_EN.pdf

His election process along with the elections of the president of the EU Commission (Barroso) and EU Parliament (Schultz) are all closed. The electoral system whereby politicians elect other politicians is a Politburo, and a long long way from how the UK electorate elects its political representatives (save the Lords to some extent).

Whatever you think about Cameron he is up for re-election next year............when did we, and when do we get a say on the elections of Barroso or Van Rompuy?

 

[The Large One]

Whatever you think about Cameron he is up for re-election next year............when did we, and when do we get a say on the elections of Barroso or Van Rompuy?

About the same time we had the choice of Cameron - or anyone - as the Prime Minister.

Never.

 

[beorhthelm]

About the same time we had the choice of Cameron - or anyone - as the Prime Minister.

Never.

not the same though is it. with our admittedly flawed system most vote for the party so elect the leader by proxy of their local MP. also, if you join up to the parties you have a vote (however diminished it might be). the EU is far more removed that even that, its a poor effort to have come about by design.

 

[cunning fergus]

About the same time we had the choice of Cameron - or anyone - as the Prime Minister.

Never.

That's funny...........

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election2010/results/

Although, it could explain your confusion between the UK's democracy and the ersatz version in the EU.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ed-States-of-Europe-says-top-EU-official.html

Looks like the unelected euro elite are going to ramp up the rhetoric over WW1 100 year commemorations.
Perhaps UKIP will really lock onto this here in the UK for the vote in May.
What do you think?

Would love to be part of a United states of Europe !

When do you think it will happen?

 

[BadFish]

You are not seriously representing that the basis of how a UK political party elects its leader (who is merely a prospective UK PM) is the same, and therefore justifies how the President of the European Council is elected?

Since the Lisbon Treaty, the EU Council has a president, along with other posts like Foreign Minister and diplomatic service. The EU Council was also afforded EU institutional rights, which effectively means as President of that institution he is the de facto President of the EU.

http://consilium.europa.eu/uedocs/cmsUpload/Background-President_of_the_EC_EN.pdf

His election process along with the elections of the president of the EU Commission (Barroso) and EU Parliament (Schultz) are all closed. The electoral system whereby politicians elect other politicians is a Politburo, and a long long way from how the UK electorate elects its political representatives (save the Lords to some extent).

Whatever you think about Cameron he is up for re-election next year............when did we, and when do we get a say on the elections of Barroso or Van Rompuy?

My knowledge of the EU is limited and I am struggling to understand your point.

From what i can work out representatives of the EU parliament are voted for by the public of each country. But the EU commission are send by the government of each country. The commission make policy which is sent through to the Parliament to be passed (am I right so far?)

the UK has the house of commons in which representatives are voted for by the people and the House of Lords which are selected by some other process.


In neither system to we get to vote directly for the leaders, speakers or presidents
One house voted for and one house selcted by other means.. sorry but it seems pretty similar to me, what do you see as the difference?