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[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...



Audax

Boing boing boing...
Aug 3, 2015
2,963
Uckfield
Walker is right in the above video. Tories are getting away, continually, with saying the refugees are coming here illegally. That they are criminals. That's simply not the case. Everybody has a right to seek asylum, that isn't a crime. It seems mad that it has to be said and them getting away with this kind of language, unchallenged, is very, very dangerous.
Edit: apologies @Berty23 for basically repeating your point a few minutes later :)
I'm going to repeat it as well. The Rwanda policy has often been compared to the Australian approach to handling asylum seeker arrivals by boat. However, the UK approach announced this week goes well beyond anything Australia is currently doing. There's a good read here: https://humanrights.gov.au/our-work...s/asylum-seekers-and-refugees#third_countries - but in particular the first paragraph of Section 7, which states very clearly and unambiguously:

"Seeking asylum in Australia, or elsewhere, is not illegal. In fact, it is a basic human right. All people are entitled to protection of their human rights, including the right to seek asylum, regardless of how or where they arrive in Australia, or in any other country."

From a Human Rights perspective, the word "Australia" in the above is interchangeable with "UK" given the international obligations (under various treaties and conventions etc) that both countries have signed up to.

Given what I linked to is a very long read, there is a passage in there that points to some Aussie law that is a close match to what Braverman and Sunak are now proposing (refusal of the right to apply for asylum if arriving by boat). However, in practice that element of Australian law is not applied - it includes clauses that mean the relevant Minister can waive that part of the law, and there has now for a very long time been a blanket waiver in place and the reality is that Australia's approach to arrivals by boat now is to ensure that boat arrival applications *cannot* be processed faster than non-boat applications.

A key difference here is that Australia does have a process (in fact, it is the preferred method) for applying for asylum from outside the country. An applicant must first apply to the UNHCR for refugee status, and they can then apply for an Australian refugee visa. Unfortunately that process does take time and Australia's problem with arrivals by boat was driven by a perception that it would short cut the process if they were in Australia. Now that it is well known that arriving by boat does not offer a shortcut, the boat "problem" for Australia is vastly diminished.
 




Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Lol….sorry Clampie but u know whatever arguments i come up with they wont change your mind….but i really must get back to work..I’ll leave you to all your like minded peeps

oh and dont worry the latest ’scheme’ is being challenged by all those neutral (haha) cival servants ….
Full fact on asylum seekers and any 'benefits'

 


The Clamp

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 11, 2016
24,619
West is BEST




keaton

Big heart, hot blood and balls. Big balls
Nov 18, 2004
9,676

Suella Braverman accused of rule breach over ‘blob of civil servants’ email​

Call for ministerial code inquiry over message blaming civil servants for failure to stop Channel crossings




Suella Braverman has been accused of potentially breaking ministerial rules by questioning the impartiality of public servants over small boat crossings in a Conservative campaign message.
In an email to thousands of Tory supporters, the home secretary blamed “an activist blob of leftwing lawyers, civil servants and the Labour party” for the government’s failure to stop Channel crossings.



There's no point in sacking her again, she'd just reappointed a week later
 




Audax

Boing boing boing...
Aug 3, 2015
2,963
Uckfield
Every chance they always wanted to come to the UK. But the reason they get on those pitiful boats in France is because they want to leave France and come to England.
The reason they get on the boats is because the UK doesn't offer them the chance to claim asylum from outside the country. The do it from France because it's the closest & safest country to go to if your goal is to come to the UK. How they may or may not be treated in France is irrelevant in making that decision to get on the boat: they've already made that decision before they got to France.
 


Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat


The Clamp

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 11, 2016
24,619
West is BEST
Goes to France to “negotiate a way to help each other”

Comes back with a £500,000,000 bill for a detention centre in France.

🤣🤣🤣

Priceless.
 




Audax

Boing boing boing...
Aug 3, 2015
2,963
Uckfield
sure, a migrant is looking up the Dublin III regulations while weighing up how to get out of Syria or Afghanistan. makes as much sense as policy to deport them to Rwanda would deter - they dont even know about this stuff.
No, the way it works is that the people smugglers tell them that the current legal framework means that once they're in the UK, they won't be removed. It's not the refugees who do the research and run the smuggling routes. It's the gangs, and the gangs know everything they need to know to convince the refugees that what they are offering is "best".
 


Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
10,990
Crawley
Why not go the whole hog and launch (pun intended) a campaign to keep the boats running?

One of the things that really needs looking at, but keeps being glossed over, is what is it about France that makes it such a hell-hole that people want to leave so badly?
120,000 asylum claims in France last year, 72,000 in the UK. 3/4 of those applying in France will fail on average, and since leaving the EU, anyone that has a failed asylum claim in France, can try again in the UK if they can get here. Whilst we were in the EU, a failed asylum claim in another EU Country would mean that we did not have to consider their asylum claim. 70% of claims are approved in the UK. That will be part of the answer, some will have family in the UK, and some will speak English well but not French.
 






Pevenseagull

Anti-greed coalition
Jul 20, 2003
19,706


WATFORD zero

Well-known member
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Jul 10, 2003
25,980
There are a couple of very simple facts that explain why we are where we are with refugee numbers crossing the channel increasing hugely over the last few years. If you are incapable of acknowledging or addressing these simple facts then I am afraid your opinion is completely without validity (the quality of being logically or factually) and is therefor, pointless :shrug: Sorry

This Government closed the option for claiming asylum while abroad in September 2011. For decades we always had asylum schemes where people could claim asylum, whilst abroad, get their claims processed and get allowed in if their claim was valid. Nearly 12 years ago we stopped accepting Asylum requests from abroad and insisted the person had to be in the UK.

As a signatory to the 1951 Refugee Convention, the UK fully considers all asylum applications lodged in the UK. However, the UK’s international obligations under the Convention do not extend to the consideration of asylum applications lodged abroad and there is no provision in our Immigration Rules for someone abroad to be given permission to travel to the UK to seek asylum. The policy guidance on the discretionary referral to the UK Border Agency of applications for asylum by individuals in a third country who have not been recognised as refugees by another country or by the UNHCR under its mandate, has been withdrawn. No applications will be considered by a UK visa-issuing post or by the UK Border Agency pending a review of the policy and guidance.

20 September 2011

https://freemovement.org.uk/does-the-uk-consider-asylum-applications-made-from-abroad/


(Although, prior to Brexit, we were still part of Dublin II covering asylum within the the EU until just over 2 years ago when we ceased to operate under EU rules).

More recently we have closed every legal asylum scheme forcing anyone who wants to claim asylum (and due to the above, has to be in Britain to claim) to go to people smugglers and get put in boats to cross the English Channel.



"Unless we provide a safe route, we are complicit with the people smugglers"

Whether you believe that we have arrived at this point by incompetence or design, is up to you ???
 


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,342
No, the way it works is that the people smugglers tell them that the current legal framework means that once they're in the UK, they won't be removed. It's not the refugees who do the research and run the smuggling routes. It's the gangs, and the gangs know everything they need to know to convince the refugees that what they are offering is "best".
that seems at odds with the narrative the migrant comes to UK because family/language/cultural links. now its because they've been told the relative merits of each countries asylum process. does this mean the policies to deport to 3rd countries, make their claim automatically fail are valid and will work, because the smugglers will pass on this information? i dont think so, but thats the inference.
 






The Clamp

Well-known member
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Jan 11, 2016
24,619
West is BEST
that seems at odds with the narrative the migrant comes to UK because family/language/cultural links. now its because they've been told the relative merits of each countries asylum process. does this mean the policies to deport to 3rd countries, make their claim automatically fail are valid and will work, because the smugglers will pass on this information? i dont think so, but thats the inference.
Depends what reasons they have for coming here.
 


Hugo Rune

Well-known member
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Feb 23, 2012
21,716
Brighton
Why not go the whole hog and launch (pun intended) a campaign to keep the boats running?

One of the things that really needs looking at, but keeps being glossed over, is what is it about France that makes it such a hell-hole that people want to leave so badly?
They don’t, they take a lot more migrants than us.
 






jimhigham

Je Suis Rhino
Apr 25, 2009
7,791
Woking
OK. This isn't directly the government's fault but what the hell?

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2...c-wild-isles-episode-rightwing-backlash-fears

The BBC has been so cowed by the government that it daren't broadcast uncomfortable facts on terrestrial TV. The episode containing facts about species depletion in the UK will be relegated to iPlayer. They're so scared that they're sidelining Attenborough?

Education now appears to be too uncomfortable for the very right wing. This is some terrifying shit.
 


Hugo Rune

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 23, 2012
21,716
Brighton
Goes to France to “negotiate a way to help each other”

Comes back with a £500,000,000 bill for a detention centre in France.

🤣🤣🤣

Priceless.
It’s not funny in anyway. That’s tax payers money they are wasting on gammon-culture wars that should be being spent on things like pay increases for nurses or on reducing record breaking NHS treatment waiting times.
 


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