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[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...



jcdenton08

Offended Liver Sausage
NSC Patron
Oct 17, 2008
11,343
NSC certainly isn’t all tolerance and light in politics threads! Big difference between being fanatical about a political party and just plain racism though…
 




DataPoint

Well-known member
Mar 31, 2015
432
I haven't visited this thread for month's - nothing's changed!

Gary Lineker is again is a hero by comparing the governments immigration strategy to that of the Nazi's in the 1930's .

If you are honest, if you are intelligent, if you are young or old and wise, if you pride yourself in wanting the truth - get yourself a copy of Thames Televisions 1970's acclaimed series "The World at War". Every episode is extraordinary but in the context of Gary's claim three episodes stand out -

"A New Germany (1933–1939)"

"The final solution Part One"

"The final solution Part Two"

You will see real evidence of the absolute depravity of human begins - you will see total hatred, humiliation, the destruction of civilization whipped up by mind-blowing propaganda - you will see the actual footage and stupefyingly horrific murder of men, women and children - not acted - real footage - with survivors harrowing interviews and on a scale utterly, utterly inconceivable.

If you do this, you will view poor old Gary with sympathy and sadness!

 






rippleman

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2011
4,660
At the moment Labour have all the power by virtue of staying quiet and not giving failing Tories any ammunition. The hustings and debates after manifesto is released don’t give Conservative strategists time to play the long PR game of slagging off Labour ideas for years before an election.

This is sensible to me.
Well, except the appointment of Sue Gray as his "Chief of Staff" (whatever that may be). Not only was that giving the Tories ammunition, but the gun to fire the ammunition as well, then shooting himself in the foot with it.

That shows a total lack of political judgement on Starmer's part. It was daft. Wait until the GE is done and dusted and THEN appoint her. His refusal to say when he first contacted Gray to offer her the job also stinks. If you having neither to hide Sir Starmer, why are you going to such lengths to hide it?
 




jcdenton08

Offended Liver Sausage
NSC Patron
Oct 17, 2008
11,343
You do wonder how Andrew Neil got away with being a political anchor on the Beeb for all those years whilst simultaneously being Chair of the Spectator magazine. Food for thought....
I found Neil on the whole impartial and a good host.
 


jcdenton08

Offended Liver Sausage
NSC Patron
Oct 17, 2008
11,343
Well, except the appointment of Sue Gray as his "Chief of Staff" (whatever that may be). Not only was that giving the Tories ammunition, but the gun to fire the ammunition as well, then shooting himself in the foot with it.

That shows a total lack of political judgement on Starmer's part. It was daft. Wait until the GE is done and dusted and THEN appoint her. His refusal to say when he first contacted Gray to offer her the job also stinks. If you having neither to hide Sir Starmer, why are you going to such lengths to hide it?
As I said earlier in the thread, it’s very poor optics. If it were the other away around it’d be “Tories manipulated Gray, typical sleaze” etc. But you’ll notice I don’t do political sniping or point scoring. I hate this government but wouldn’t be averse to voting Tory one day in the future if they were the right option for the country, on a constituency level or to keep others out.

Starmer could frankly be in the throes of a passionate sexual affair with Sue Gray right now for all I care and I’ll still vote Labour to get the Tories out.
 


rippleman

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2011
4,660
Only days before?

Im sure there will be many others with the same view as you on both sides of politics- voting for their party regardless of what is in the manifesto
Manifestos mean SFA anyway. Lots of promises which are never kept. I recall the last GE Labour manifesto gave a commitment to "respect the result of the Brexit referendum". They didn't. They argued and bickered and then came up with no policy whatsoever.

Manifestos are just pages of empty, hollow "promises". That is the way they have always been.
 




rippleman

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2011
4,660
As I said earlier in the thread, it’s very poor optics. If it were the other away around it’d be “Tories manipulated Gray, typical sleaze” etc. But you’ll notice I don’t do political sniping or point scoring. I hate this government but wouldn’t be averse to voting Tory one day in the future if they were the right option for the country, on a constituency level or to keep others out.

Starmer could frankly be in the throes of a passionate sexual affair with Sue Gray right now for all I care and I’ll still vote Labour to get the Tories out.
Of course. Me too. But he really didn't need all the bad press from "Graygate", which was of his own making, which has certainly diverted media attention away from more important and pressing issues.

I am far from convinced that Starmer is the astute politician we need to solve our country's woes. But I have no choice but to give him the chance.
 


sparkie

Well-known member
Jul 17, 2003
12,730
Hove
Manifestos mean SFA anyway. Lots of promises which are never kept. I recall the last GE Labour manifesto gave a commitment to "respect the result of the Brexit referendum". They didn't. They argued and bickered and then came up with no policy whatsoever.

Manifestos are just pages of empty, hollow "promises". That is the way they have always been.
This confuses me.

A manifesto is a commitment to what a party will do in Government. If the party loses a general election the manifesto is ripped up and not acted on - for the simple reason that the party isn't in Government, and in any case the manifesto was rejected by the electorate. So who sticks to a manifesto after losing an election....?
 


jcdenton08

Offended Liver Sausage
NSC Patron
Oct 17, 2008
11,343
Question for Labour Party member friends here. What are new new Labour’s views on defence? Namely Ukraine/Russia then also on Trident?
 




rippleman

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2011
4,660
This confuses me.

A manifesto is a commitment to what a party will do in Government. If the party loses a general election the manifesto is ripped up and not acted on - for the simple reason it the party isn't in Government, and in any case the manifesto was rejected by the electorate. So who sticks to a manifesto after losing an election....?
A manifesto sets out what a party will do in government. Labour published their manifesto stating they would "respect the Brexit referendum result. When it came to the hustings, there was no coherent policy supported by all members of the party, or indeed the MPs / candidates. Ask a Labour MP or candidate "what is your policy on Europe / Brexit?" and you got a different answer every time
 


jcdenton08

Offended Liver Sausage
NSC Patron
Oct 17, 2008
11,343
A manifesto sets out what a party will do in government. Labour published their manifesto stating they would "respect the Brexit referendum result. When it came to the hustings, there was no coherent policy supported by all members of the party, or indeed the MPs / candidates. Ask a Labour MP or candidate "what is your policy on Europe / Brexit?" and you got a different answer every time
Well yes, but the entire campaign was a clusterfuck. You had moderates, remnants of New Labour and Momentum all with very different ideas on what Labour even represented.

They would put forward guests from different factions depending on which source they were appealing to. Sky News’s Labour guests would end up saying the exact opposite to the BBC’s, with an entirely different take from within the shadow cabinet in The Guardian.

What Sir Keir has done is - taken on the surface and from the outside looking in - reunite the party and sack off as many as possible who aren’t getting with the program. Fantastic for the party and the country to have a strong, United opposition ready to take government and start off pulling in the same direction
 


nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
17,792
Gods country fortnightly
I found Neil on the whole impartial and a good host.
I actually think Neil on very good at his job and impartial on the Beeb, but not elsewhere. Yet Lineker is chastised for a comment on a private twitter account and he doesn't host a political programme.

Seems the government want to make the rules up when it suits them
 




jcdenton08

Offended Liver Sausage
NSC Patron
Oct 17, 2008
11,343
I actually think Neil on very good at his job and impartial on the Beeb, but not elsewhere. Yet Lineker is chastised for a comment on a private twitter account and he doesn't host a political programme.

Seems the government want to make the rules up when it suits them
I don’t think Lineker has done anything wrong either. It’s a non-story. Nobody is completely unbiased in their views and he hasn’t said anything inflammatory.

Was just pointing out that Andrew Neil on the BBC at least was always scrupulously fair and clearly took his job seriously.
 


Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
But I really don't think they care if the net result is self harm to the UK, their only concern is popularity and holding onto power.
True, and making millions doing it. Power, greed and money are their motivations.
Question for Labour Party member friends here. What are new new Labour’s views on defence? Namely Ukraine/Russia then also on Trident?
I am not a Party member, nor have I voted for Labour for many years, but this is quite easy to find.
 


jcdenton08

Offended Liver Sausage
NSC Patron
Oct 17, 2008
11,343
True, and making millions doing it. Power, greed and money are their motivations.

I am not a Party member, nor have I voted for Labour for many years, but this is quite easy to find.
Thanks, but struggling to find anything on Trident. Will wait for the manifesto!
 


Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
16,918
Fiveways
Question for Labour Party member friends here. What are new new Labour’s views on defence? Namely Ukraine/Russia then also on Trident?
I'm a member of a different party to Labour and, probably, you. My suggestion is that you look up the Labour Party's website, and follow the utterances of David Lammy in order to get the answer to your question.
 




jcdenton08

Offended Liver Sausage
NSC Patron
Oct 17, 2008
11,343
I'm a member of a different party to Labour and, probably, you. My suggestion is that you look up the Labour Party's website, and follow the utterances of David Lammy in order to get the answer to your question.
Oh I’m not a member of any political party - in fact I’ve not voted for the same one twice in a row, but thanks for the tip.
 


Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat


Suella Braverman accused of rule breach over ‘blob of civil servants’ email​

Call for ministerial code inquiry over message blaming civil servants for failure to stop Channel crossings




Suella Braverman has been accused of potentially breaking ministerial rules by questioning the impartiality of public servants over small boat crossings in a Conservative campaign message.
In an email to thousands of Tory supporters, the home secretary blamed “an activist blob of leftwing lawyers, civil servants and the Labour party” for the government’s failure to stop Channel crossings.


 


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