This week's 1901 meal

[Herr Tubthumper]

This is the problem, we have been going to the Swan from day one but it is getting busier, alot of people have been away for the last couple of games so it will be interesting how busy it is over the coming weeks. If too many people go there it will be a victim of its own success and we will probably end up drinking in Lewes or Brighton instead if the queues get too bad.

Is there any space to install temporary outside bars/marquees etc?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Is there anyway someone can reproduce or scan Barber's programme notes? Or email them to me? I'm keen to read the full article. I know someone posted a photo of them on here but it pixilated when I tried to enlarge it for reading. I also notice the Chairman's section on NSC stopped sometime ago. Why was this?

 

[Tricky Dicky]

Are you drawing the lime at rice as well?

Hmmm, a step too far methinks.

 

[Hillian1]

Is there any space to install temporary outside bars/marquees etc?

They already do, it is bloody good value there and the food is excellent but it looks like it's going to get much busier now.

 

[matt]

Lasagne and rice?? Sounds like they are clearing out the cupboards.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

They already do, it is bloody good value there and the food is excellent but it looks like it's going to get much busier now.

Fair play to them. Brighton uni have a lot of land. I wonder if they can stick any marquees up?

 

[Stuart Munday]

Fair play to them. Brighton uni have a lot of land. I wonder if they can stick any marquees up?

I wonder how easy it would be to get the planning changed, have a giant marquee on Bennetts Field or smaller ones going up from the station selling chips hog roasts etc, couldn't fail and the club would make loads of money. Can't see many objections, no houses nearby, The Swan wouldn't like it but they would still do a good trade in my opinion.

 

[Husty]

Email from Barber I forgot to post last week, I sent him a pretty direct one outlining why I personally (when I do visit the Amex) don't buy food on the concourses, this was his reply.

Thank you for your e-mail. I really appreciate fans taking the time to write to me. I've also read the message board thread you've sent with your note which was very helpful to understand the background to your e-mail.


Forgive me if this reply is lengthy and, in places, very direct, but I think it's important that I take a bit of time to provide you with further context to this debate as, from what I've seen, only one paragraph of my programme notes appears to have been shown to those reading the message board thread which is slightly mis-leading to say the least - if not a little disingenuous! - for those that have not read the programme notes in full.


Sodexo are in their first month of operation at the club. They are world class caterers - the second largest caterer in the world in fact - and they know this business inside out but, like any major new supplier in a brand new environment, they will take time to bed in and establish the best possible work practices and processes to deliver their contract with us. And, it will take a little time for Sodexo to, most importantly, provide our supporters with the catering service they expect and deserve, whether that's on the concourse or in our 1901 facilities. To judge Sodexo so harshly - as some appear to have done - after just one month! - is, quite frankly, ridiculous.


The club's contract with Sodexo provides for specific standards for the quality of food and for service levels. If those standards are not met, the club has the power to demand and insist on rapid changes. We did this with Azure, it didn't make any difference, so we made a big change. I expect the best possible service for our supporters and I'm not afraid of making a further change should that ever become necessary. Clearly, I would rather not have to do this again.


Unfortunately, I was engaged in other urgent and very time consuming business for the club at the time of the catering tender process, so I was not involved in any of the pitches for our new catering contract, but I am told by other Board members who led the process (and of course from what I read after the presentations) that our tender process was highly competitive in every sense - food quality, value, service standards, innovation, future development, and financials - with Sodexo just edging out Lindley's on every measure. The point being we do not make decisions just on financials alone. Every measure, including food quality, service levels, and value for supporters, is important in its own right.


Broadly speaking, our concourse menu continues to reflect what our fans have asked us for, namely as many locally produced and sourced products as possible, such as Piglet's Pies and Harvey's ale, and the long awaited chips! Some of our products may be higher priced than those found at other stadiums - although so far, generally speaking and relative to the usual regional differences, I don't see too much evidence of this and I have visited every away ground this season and last season - but if we are more expensive it's typically because we are providing better, locally sourced, products rather than mass produced food which can usually be found at stadiums up and down the country and this is what our supporters tell us they don't want.


With regard to pricing, it is, unfortunately just not possible to reasonably compare our food and drink prices with other establishments across the city. If you have read my programme notes in full - rather than the single paragraph included in the message board thread you refer to - then you will see that I fully acknowledge that it will always be possible to buy cheaper food in larger quantities, possibly faster, elsewhere in the city.


We are set up to serve food around 25 times a year to up to 30,000 people in a very short space time in unusual serving conditions when compared to a city-based restaurant, pub, fish bar, or burger bar. We are not open 7 days a week or 12 hours a day so our sales window is small, our labour supply is casual not fixed, our customer base is limited to those attending match days, we have no passing trade to speak of, we do not have the same economies of scale from our purchasing of products, and our overheads are truly incomparable (to a restaurant, pub, fish bar, or burger bar).



Despite this, and despite rising food prices for all of us, our concourse catering prices are exactly the same as last season (aside, obviously, from the new products we have introduced) - and actually cheaper if you can arrive earlier and or leave later - while in our 1901 club our offer now reflects 3 or 4 different price points depending on the lounge you are in. One of those hospitality price points is now directly comparable to the prices charged for our portacabin based hospitality at Withdean although I'd strongly argue the ambience of our 1901 lounges at the Amex compares far more favourably.


To try and compare what was provided on the concourses at Withdean to the Amex is very difficult. Again, if you have read my programme notes in full, I covered this point too. Withdean was essentially a local authority owned, open air designed athletics stadium with relatively low overheads attracting around 5,000 fans per match. There were 5 or 6 food concessions all of which were subject to very different planning conditions to those at the Amex.


The Amex, by comparison, is a £100 million plus purpose built football stadium with 5 or 6 times the number of concessions (built to different conditions, specifications and standards to Withdean), employing many times more match day staff, and serving up to 30,000 people. Our overheads are vast relative to those we faced at Withdean. Again, it is not reasonable to expect prices to directly compare when our business model and business demands are so different.


In any case, value for money is of course a relative term. For example, we expect to pay more for a soft drink at a pub or even a cinema than we would expect to pay in a supermarket, and we expect to pay more for a beer in a stadium or a restaurant than in a supermarket. Often the quantity is lower and, depending how it is served to us (from a fountain, large or small bottle, ice/no ice), the quality can vary significantly too. Similarly, we expect to pay more for a burger at Gourmet Burger Kitchen than at say McDonald's. I took my kids to GBK in Brighton last night - and it was good - but in value terms was it really worth more than 3 or 4 times the cost of a similar meal in McDonald's? Maybe not - the quality and was probably similar, the quantity of food less, but the ambience was better and it felt like more of a nice casual meal than a trip to McDonalds's as a result.


Again, I would argue that relaxing with decent food and drink and fellow fans at the Amex a good while before (or after) the game knowing your seat is just metres away when you are ready to go to it to experience the pre-match build up is actually far better than doing something similar away from the stadium and making a late rush to the game. However, I accept and respect that everyone's different and family budgets are very important. Clearly, however, for the club's sake, I would much rather see supporters spend their money with us. I make no apologies for that.


Significantly, Sodexo are also still waiting for many of our regular catering staff to return to the universities from where the majority are drawn. As is often the case during August, our caterers are using agency staff who, unfortunately, are not familiar with our operations. As regrettable and as frustrating as this is for supporters, for the club, and for Sodexo themselves, it is quite normal for stadiums that rely on university students for casual catering labour to experience early season issues.




It is very hard to train and familiarise casual staff in a short period of time and particularly when many will only be with us for one or two matches. Sodexo are the third different caterer at the Amex since we opened but the many of the concourse and lounge staff, including management, are exactly the same. There will always be a degree of staff turnover when students represent a large % of your workforce but many are with us for at least a season or more so when our regular staff are back, we expect service levels and speeds to improve quickly.


As was the case in the change from Azure to Lindley's, with stadium catering shifts, it is very often only the very senior management that change so there is no reason at all for the high quality of service enjoyed in the second half of last season to be re-established very soon. We are monitoring Sodexo's performance very carefully as indeed are their own senior team and we are seeing improvements with every match.


Please also remember that Lindley's, who did an excellent job as our emergency caterers for half a season, came in when many of the staff were 6 months in to a season and were familiar with the operation. Lindley's changed a few managers and some work practices and processes. But the staff largely stayed the same but regular staff members received additional on the job and out of hours training.


I also noticed on the message board thread you sent that I was criticised by some people for being patronising towards our fans in my programme notes or that I was suggesting that if our food and drink wasn't purchased it would be the fans' fault if we were unable to buy new players in the future! I can assure you (and those that have suggested this) that I was not doing either of these things! Far from it in fact.


I was simply trying to explain the consequences for the club's Financial Fair Play (FFP) result if large numbers of our own supporters were to choose to eat elsewhere. Food and drink sales are an important revenue stream for the club. All revenue counts towards our FFP result. Our FFP result determines our playing budget. It's really that simple - and that complicated! And, either way, it's not something as the club's CEO I can ignore. It's my job to maximise our playing budget.


Of course it goes without saying - although I did say this too! - that we can't force people to eat and drink with us and it certainly does go without saying - but we'll say it anyway - that our food and beverages must be good so that people want to eat and drink with us. It must also be reasonably priced and it must also represent good value. But this criteria must be judged in a reasonable context and comparing our prices to establishments across the city means we will probably lose every time! Unfortunately, for the reasons I have already outlined, we will never be the cheapest or the quickest.


Interestingly, though, our concourse food and beverage sales for the opening two League matches of the season have been amongst our highest ever at the Amex. Given the constraints I mentioned earlier - early season syndrome for want of a better expression - these numbers are very encouraging and suggest that the vast majority of supporters are getting the concourse food and drink they need at a price they can afford and in good time. However, despite the good start, we certainly must not be complacent and we are looking for constant improvements in all catering areas - and this will continue.


Financial Fair Play is changing the way we must run our business - and this does affect all of our fans, both long standing and new. The club has deliberately set out to ensure our fans are fully aware of the implications of the new rules and it's noticeable that many other Championship clubs are now following the lead we took in January of this year as they realise how FFP is now massively affecting the running of their clubs too.


In our case, as I remarked to another fan that wrote to me yesterday, FFP is now the single most significant factor in every discussion the club's board has, whether that is about the purchase or loan of a player, any further development of facilities at our stadium, or how we price our various products and services to supporters. For that reason alone, it is not something we can just assume everyone understands and therefore we must continue to take time to inform as best we can.


I'm very sorry if this can sometimes be boring or sound patronising but I know from reading the club's history that openness and transparency have not always been features of past regimes at the Albion and I would rather be criticised for being boring or patronising than for failing to fully explain why we do what we do or for lacking in transparency towards our supporters.


It's obviously disappointing that some individuals on a message board thread wish to personalise the current catering debate to me and, while I'm not quite sure I understand why that would be, I can assure you that such personal criticism will not deter me from taking difficult decisions or pathways to improve our club's financial position or indeed to ensure its future is more secure than its past. It's what Tony and the Board pay me to do. I am encouraged that our sales are up and that this has been achieved during a difficult operational month in the season and also while many fans are away on holidays. I would also expect service levels and standards to continue to improve as the season unfolds and for that to help our sales further.


Finally, this may be a long reply, but please do feel free to share it with other supporters if you think it might be helpful. Also, please do let me know if you have other queries. I will always do my best to answer as openly and honestly as possible. Once again, I am attending as many supporter group meetings as I can this season and I hope I to meet many of those who have written on this subject on the message board. I'd certainly be very happy to answer their questions or the points they make in person if they choose to attend. Thank you for your support. I hope you enjoy the season.

 

[fleet]

Email from Barber I forgot to post last week, I sent him a pretty direct one outlining why I personally (when I do visit the Amex) don't buy food on the concourses, this was his reply.

Good on him to send this, but prices must come down in 1901 catering.

 

[Stat Brother]

Good on him to send this, but prices must come down in 1901 catering.

Or I guess the standard and menu improved.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Email from Barber I forgot to post last week, I sent him a pretty direct one outlining why I personally (when I do visit the Amex) don't buy food on the concourses, this was his reply.

I'm sorry Paul but you do come across as patronising at times. I really do not need someone to explain the concept of value for money to me. I, and I am sure most people in these straightened times, know all to well about value. Given you have few people eating in your 1901 lounges I suggest it is maybe your good self who is not understanding this concept.

 

[trueblue]

No doubt some people will see that as another reason to pile into Paul Barber. Seems mostly reasonable to me though and I think fans should reserve judgement on the new caterers as far as the concourses are concerned until at least the end of October.

As for the 1901, I still feel the concept is flawed for the type of supporter that bought the seats. The club can try to change that by sticking to the corporate pricing but I can only ever see that working if we're in the Premier League and, even then, in lower numbers. However, I think the £14 mark is close to what people could expect to pay for a good quality, casual meal in those surroundings. It's really the standard and quantity of food that seems to be the sticking point now.

One thing I do very much agree with is that it's unnecessary to personalise this as a 'Paul Barber' issue. He seems very approachable and happy to explain his rationale. People may not like what he's there to do but cost-cutting is never popular and it's intended to benefit the club in the long run. I'm sure he'd rather spunk millions up the wall and have an inbox full of emails telling him he's wonderful so don't take it out on the bloke for trying to do his job properly.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

And once the food is sorted I will move onto the lack of coat hooks/rails and hat stands.

 

[Husty]

Only note I can think to make was that I didn't send him a link to any thread, just a mention of NSC so unless someone else did he had located the last thread on his own.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

No doubt some people will see that as another reason to pile into Paul Barber. Seems mostly reasonable to me though and I think fans should reserve judgement on the new caterers as far as the concourses are concerned until at least the end of October.

A fair comment but one year ago Barber told me things would improve and improve quickly. In one year I have seen no change. I think people now want action, not more lengthy emails.

 

[maltaseagull]

OK, what the f**k are rustic chips ?? I know what a rustic property is, and I'd even consider you could have a rustic person but rustic chips ? I guess they mean chunky chips !

I am more worried about Baby leaves!

What do babies leave?

 

[Dover]

Sorry Husty. I attempted to read the e-mail, but by the fifth paragraph, thought that it was just management speak.

The fact is the club have not done their homework whatsoever and settled with Sodexo. A company with an awful reputation, and I have seen first hand their quality mass catering at the hospital. So being served lasagne and rice is nothing astonishing for me, and neither is the lack of a decent vegetarian option, or the fact that often there is no vegetarian option available on the wards.

Sodexo are a stack it high sell it cheap company, end of.

 

[Dover]

Double post

 

[Superphil]

Good on him to send this, but prices must come down in 1901 catering.

As he says, there is a directly comparable offer to what we had at Withdean, the £59 three course meal, which was very popular at Withdean, served professionally, and prepared to a high standard (for a football stadium).

Or I guess the standard and menu improved.

And this is exactly the point for 2 seasons the caterers have failed to offer anything approaching the quality of product or service we had at Withdean.

As for the "buffet" offers, they are both too expensive, and quite laughable in content, Lasagne & Chips FFS. If the Club wants to sell the "buffet", it needs to make it a proper buffet, and reduce the price, and also think a bit harder about what they are serving.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Reading Husty's email, I can honestly say that I have total faith in Paul Barber and the difficult job he's having to do.