Priest murdered while saying mass in French church nr Rouen

[cunning fergus]

Sweet? What sort of sick *******s will find the slaughter of an 84-year-old man saying his prayers 'sweet'

The way you make your point is like there are not people in this country or Europe who actively support the actions of the perpetrators.

The more shocking the better.......,you need to re-calibrate your expectations.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

They're not very good at this

1 guy blew himself up and took no one else with him

These two managed to kill one old guy before both getting killed.

 

[ManOfSussex]

To be fair, if you want to go back further than Bush / Blair, this could probably be pinned on the crusades.

My history isn't great but pretty sure that was the Western world rucking up in the Middle and claiming Holy sites for Christianity. Through the time honoured discipline of slaughter and violence. They've probably not liked us much since then.

It was unfortunate when Bush used the word 'crusade' in 2001 - http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB1001020294332922160

 

[Titanic]

The way you make your point is like there are not people in this country or Europe who actively support the actions of the perpetrators.

You made your point in the context of the French revolution and the traditional/historical French population. I would srongly doubt you would find many of them finding this slaughter 'sweet'

 

[symyjym]

To be fair, if you want to go back further than Bush / Blair, this could probably be pinned on the crusades.

My history isn't great but pretty sure that was the Western world rucking up in the Middle and claiming Holy sites for Christianity. Through the time honoured discipline of slaughter and violence. They've probably not liked us much since then.

You cannot compare dark age mentality though. In any case Islam had conquered Spain and the French battled to keep them out of France. Islam has always been on a Jihad but the 3 crusades lasted about 200 years.

 

[Withdean11]

Blame anyone or anything, apart from Islam.

 

[Mellotron]

Worth remembering that this sect of Islam is basically declaring war on the whole world. Yes the West is a clearly defined target, but they are also killing HUGE numbers of Muslims closer to their "home".

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

You become a refugee whilst you are fleeing from somewhere, if once you have fled and then decide to then ponder a preference to go somewhere in particular you become a migrant.

It has become a consequence of weak government and astonishingly poor judgement on policy that we are now at risk of harm from some that have travelled in historically high numbers unchecked from a vipers nest of a region that you yourself seem to now acknowledge but never have previously.

Spot on.

We should help people fleeing from war, however it is imperative that they, for the most part, settle in countries which are for the most part the most similar to their country's culture and tradition.

 

[BBassic]

Blame anyone or anything, apart from Islam.

You can absolutely blame Islam. Specifically you can blame the sect of people who subscribe to this particular interpretation of Islam.

 

[marshy68]

Time to unleash Bush and Blair

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

They are the cause of the current issues. Bombing the Middle East for the last 25 years has just worsened the situation.

 

[nicko31]

They are the cause of the current issues. Bombing the Middle East for the last 25 years has just worsened the situation.

Yep, I'm afraid the chickens are coming home to roost. The west has learnt little from history

Worrying times across Europe, ISIS are praying for the rise of the far right, a Trump win would be the perfect catalyst

 

[wellquickwoody]

They're not very good at this

1 guy blew himself up and took no one else with him

These two managed to kill one old guy before both getting killed.

Plenty enough to spread fear, in other words, terrorism.

 

[Gwylan]

Islam has always been on a Jihad

That's just not true: the Ottoman Empire survived for several centuries, stretched across most of the middle East and large parts of eastern Europe. Although it was officially Muslim, monotheist religions such as Christianity and Judaism were allowed and there is little evidence of persecution against them.

Contrast this to western Europe where anti-semitism was routinely practised and there was discrimination against the 'wrong' type of Christianity. Hell, it's only in the last decade that the heir to the British throne has been allowed to marry a Catholic.

For centuries, Jews, Christians and Muslims lived alongside each other in places like Baghdad, Damascus, Beirut, Aleppo and Cairo. Claudia Roden, the Jewish cookery writer, talks with great fondness of her Egyptian childhood and the Saatchi brothers came from a wealthy Iraqi Jewish family.

Even during the Crusades, Saladin was renowned for showing mercy to his captives and generous ransom terms for prisoners - in sharp contrast to the crusaders' treatment of prisoners.

Of course, the situation has deteriorated over the years but the Middle East was not the tinderpot it is today - not even close. Isis, Al Qaeda, the Taliban and other assorted fanatics have been making up for lost time but this isn't a centuries long conflict ... apart from in their own demented minds.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The notion of a Caliphate started after WW1, when the Ottoman empire broke up, so it's been around for nearly 100 years.

Basically, there are extremists using religion, to gain power over territories. They fight each other as well as the west.

Sunni, Shia, Taliban, ISIL, ISIS, AL Qaeda, Islamic Jihad Movement of Eritrea and al-Itihaad al-Islamiya, a Somali group. Muslim Brotherhood, Hezbollah, Jamaat-e-Islami, Jamaat ul-Fuqra, Lashkar-e-Taiba, the Nation of Islam and various Salafist groups.

 

[Scampi]

That's just not true: the Ottoman Empire survived for several centuries, stretched across most of the middle East and large parts of eastern Europe. Although it was officially Muslim, monotheist religions such as Christianity and Judaism were allowed and there is little evidence of persecution against them.

.

Starting at the Armenian genocide and working backwards there's plenty of evidence

 

[Guy Crouchback]

That's just not true: the Ottoman Empire survived for several centuries, stretched across most of the middle East and large parts of eastern Europe. Although it was officially Muslim, monotheist religions such as Christianity and Judaism were allowed and there is little evidence of persecution against them.

LOL

Tell that to Greeks, Serbs, Bulgarians or Armenians.

And, as a Pole, I can tell you that as an enemy they were comparable only to Nazi Germany in their ferocity and cruelty to civilians (enslavement, beheadings, burning of entire towns and villages etc. you name it). Wikipedia has very little information on this, but if you read more historic books on the following conflicts...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish–Ottoman_War_(1485–1503)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish–Ottoman_War_(1620–21)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish–Ottoman_War_(1633–34)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish–Cossack–Tatar_War_(1666–71)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish–Ottoman_War_(1672–76)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish–Ottoman_War_(1683–99)

... and what happened in-between the wars, you will be terrified with what your "peace-loving" Ottoman Empire, "gently stretching across most of the middle East and large parts of eastern Europe", was capable of.

Sure, it was different times, no Geneva convention, no TV-news, no Internet, but as a citizen of a country who fought many bloody wars against the Turks, and also in the name of Greeks, Serbs, Bulgarians, Armenians and many other smaller nations enslaved by the Ottomans, I had to protest against painting them as peace-loving cuddly fluffy kittens, having nothing to do with Jihad at all.

 

[carlzeiss]

That's just not true: the Ottoman Empire survived for several centuries, stretched across most of the middle East and large parts of eastern Europe. Although it was officially Muslim, monotheist religions such as Christianity and Judaism were allowed and there is little evidence of persecution against them.

Contrast this to western Europe where anti-semitism was routinely practised and there was discrimination against the 'wrong' type of Christianity. Hell, it's only in the last decade that the heir to the British throne has been allowed to marry a Catholic.




For centuries, Jews, Christians and Muslims lived alongside each other in places like Baghdad, Damascus, Beirut, Aleppo and Cairo. Claudia Roden, the Jewish cookery writer, talks with great fondness of her Egyptian childhood and the Saatchi brothers came from a wealthy Iraqi Jewish family.

Even during the Crusades, Saladin was renowned for showing mercy to his captives and generous ransom terms for prisoners - in sharp contrast to the crusaders' treatment of prisoners.

Of course, the situation has deteriorated over the years but the Middle East was not the tinderpot it is today - not even close. Isis, Al Qaeda, the Taliban and other assorted fanatics have been making up for lost time but this isn't a centuries long conflict ... apart from in their own demented minds.

Plenty of evidence of genocide carried out in the middle east against Christians during the 20th century if you can be bothered to search .


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simele_massacre

 

[symyjym]

That's just not true: the Ottoman Empire survived for several centuries, stretched across most of the middle East and large parts of eastern Europe. Although it was officially Muslim, monotheist religions such as Christianity and Judaism were allowed and there is little evidence of persecution against them.

Contrast this to western Europe where anti-semitism was routinely practised and there was discrimination against the 'wrong' type of Christianity. Hell, it's only in the last decade that the heir to the British throne has been allowed to marry a Catholic.

For centuries, Jews, Christians and Muslims lived alongside each other in places like Baghdad, Damascus, Beirut, Aleppo and Cairo. Claudia Roden, the Jewish cookery writer, talks with great fondness of her Egyptian childhood and the Saatchi brothers came from a wealthy Iraqi Jewish family.

Even during the Crusades, Saladin was renowned for showing mercy to his captives and generous ransom terms for prisoners - in sharp contrast to the crusaders' treatment of prisoners.

Of course, the situation has deteriorated over the years but the Middle East was not the tinderpot it is today - not even close. Isis, Al Qaeda, the Taliban and other assorted fanatics have been making up for lost time but this isn't a centuries long conflict ... apart from in their own demented minds.

Yep I know Saladin showed mercy to the crusaders and I know the crusaders were brutal killing Christians and Jews along the way. As I said our crusades were just for a few hundred years. The history of Jihad Eastwards is also another story.

The Ottoman Empire started with the conquest of Constantinople. Islam was also at war with itself immediately after Muhammad's death. Dark Age Christianity has nothing to do with Jesus, but Dark Age Islam has everything to do with Muhammad.

I agree that the Middle East was not the tinderpot it is today.

https://youtu.be/I_To-cV94Bo

 

[East Preston Gull]

Once again these evil basterds were on the radar and known to authority. Why are they allowed to walk around. Is it about time we went minority report and sent in the assassins to prevent this scum from killing another innocent person. Shameful.

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

 

[Gwylan]

LOL

Tell that to Greeks, Serbs, Bulgarians or Armenians.

And, as a Pole, I can tell you that as an enemy they were comparable only to Nazi Germany in their ferocity and cruelty to civilians (enslavement, beheadings, burning of entire towns and villages etc. you name it). Wikipedia has very little information on this, but if you read more historic books on the following conflicts...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish–Ottoman_War_(1485–1503)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish–Ottoman_War_(1620–21)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish–Ottoman_War_(1633–34)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish–Cossack–Tatar_War_(1666–71)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish–Ottoman_War_(1672–76)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish–Ottoman_War_(1683–99)

... and what happened in-between the wars, you will be terrified with what your "peace-loving" Ottoman Empire, "gently stretching across most of the middle East and large parts of eastern Europe", was capable of.

Sure, it was different times, no Geneva convention, no TV-news, no Internet, but as a citizen of a country who fought many bloody wars against the Turks, and also in the name of Greeks, Serbs, Bulgarians, Armenians and many other smaller nations enslaved by the Ottomans, I had to protest against painting them as peace-loving cuddly fluffy kittens, having nothing to do with Jihad at all.

I never said it was "peace loving", nor did I say "gently" - you're putting words into my mouth.

I'm certainly not denying that atrocities took place (something the Turks continue to do to this day). And I'm not denying that they were capable of cruelty but was it any worse than the Christian world? Look at the 30 Years war for example - tens of thousands people killed in the name of Christianity.

Nor am I saying that Jews and Christians were treated as equal to Muslims - they definitely weren't but I am pointing out that they had a legal status that other religions didn't have in the western world -
even if, in practice, things weren't as clear cut as that.

http://www.inquiriesjournal.com/art...-of-jews-and-christians-in-the-ottoman-empire

And yes, as I said, the situation started changing in the 20th century and has got progressively worse. I'm not denying the situation now but that's not coming from centuries of Jihad. If that was the case, there wouldn't have been any Jews or Christians left in the Middle East by the start of the 20th century ... and that's far from the case