[Albion] Potter's Phenomenal Courage

[Guinness Boy]

Jesus wept, the stench of self-congratulation on this thread is so overwhelming that I am going to have to lie down for a couple of hours.

I'm just checking that we are still 16th in the league and not on the brink of claiming a place in Europe.

I wish the bloke all the best and want his team to do brilliantly, but for ****'s sake, rein it in. Let's get a few more points on the boards shall we?

Courage can be a really good thing and a not so good thing. When we were looking at secondary schools for my son we had a lot of info, including that from the Aldridge Academy chain. They champion entrepreneurial skills and teach risk taking apparently (or did three years ago in their literature). Now, that's fine up to a point, but do you want an entrepreneurial nurse looking after you if you're unlucky enough to get Covid or a risk taking train or truck driver? Why should ALL kids in their schools be given these values, therefore.

The choice in the OP to have a pop at Moyes is just WEIRD. West Ham are massively over achieving this season. Most had them down for relegation. Equally, we are 18 months or so into a Potter reign that was going to see us established in the top ten. We are (still) 16th.

That's not to say he hasn't improved our style radically - he has. That's not to say he wasn't brave and correct against Newcastle - he coached Steve "Greggs on Legs" Bruce into the corner and made him wear a dunce's hat. But in other games he had been out coached by Brendon Rogers, Chris Wilder and Slaven Bilic.

Let's get to the end of the season and take stock. My suspicion is that we'll stay up, we'll have three points either side of last season's total and that we're likely to kick on next season. But if we do so with even one point more than last season this site will be a festival of fawning and olive branch offering for about a week.

 

[warmleyseagull]

All you have to do is swap the word courage for w**ker.

Indeed; he certainly works hard.

 

[vagabond]

It feels like the polar opposite camps of GPotts rein have considerably more in common than either faction would be comfortable in admitting.


It's not hard to imagine what NSC would be like if the Albion had actually lost to a Southampton side completely devoid of confidence and 11 men in black and white who'd seemingly rather saw off their own scrotum than win, last Saturday.

All you have to do is swap the word courage for w**ker.

Not really. Most of the Potter ins have had that stance even during bad runs. Mainly because some of us have seen the positive impact of the manager with the faith in youth, the tactical flexibility, the domination of teams and the style of play.

Like Tony and the clubs vision it’s all about the long term. Volatile short term results don’t change any of the above.

 

[Hamilton]

If, as suggested right in the opening lines of the OP, you take a step back, you'll realise it included criticism, that things have failed, and isn't self congratulatory. Saying there is courage doesn't = there has been success, it's an observation about how we've gone about our football.

Some people are choking that they staked their claim too early that it was going to end in failure, and even though we may well be pulling out of that, it's a struggle to shake that steadfast belief they held.

'His' team – I thought it was our team.

Why do we have to wait until more points before being happy about recent results? What, we're all on hold until you stop shitting yourself?

I’m delighted about recent results. Is this thread just about recent results?

Look, he is not perfect. Far from it. But he is doing the best he can to change the nature of the club.

He is flawed. A flawed genius? I’m not so sure. He has made errors and is working to put that right and I hope in time he’ll be a great manager for us.

But... the way some eulogizing about him on here, you’d think he had got us promoted or won a cup.


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[KeegansHairPiece]

Courage can be a really good thing and a not so good thing. When we were looking at secondary schools for my son we had a lot of info, including that from the Aldridge Academy chain. They champion entrepreneurial skills and teach risk taking apparently (or did three years ago in their literature). Now, that's fine up to a point, but do you want an entrepreneurial nurse looking after you if you're unlucky enough to get Covid or a risk taking train or truck driver? Why should ALL kids in their schools be given these values, therefore.

The choice in the OP to have a pop at Moyes is just WEIRD. West Ham are massively over achieving this season. Most had them down for relegation. Equally, we are 18 months or so into a Potter reign that was going to see us established in the top ten. We are (still) 16th.

That's not to say he hasn't improved our style radically - he has. That's not to say he wasn't brave and correct against Newcastle - he coached Steve "Greggs on Legs" Bruce into the corner and made him wear a dunce's hat. But in other games he had been out coached by Brendon Rogers, Chris Wilder and Slaven Bilic.

Let's get to the end of the season and take stock. My suspicion is that we'll stay up, we'll have three points either side of last season's total and that we're likely to kick on next season. But if we do so with even one point more than last season this site will be a festival of fawning and olive branch offering for about a week.

I wasn’t having a pop at Moyes or the other managers. I wasn’t getting into this ‘weird’ argument of who out coached who either. Moyes has done brilliantly, as I think I stated Dyche has done. Speak to West Ham fans (I have 2 close ST holding friends) and they accept Moyes default position is a cautious one. Mourinho’s is too and he’s won everything in the game. Moyes is a very good manager, but I’m not sure many would say he’s an innovative risk taking coach, like say Rogers who you’ve already mentioned. The point of courage was that with a very real threat of relegation hanging over the team, we’ve still played expansive attacking innovative football. It wasn’t a critique of other methods.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

I’m delighted about recent results. Is this thread just about recent results?

Look, he is not perfect. Far from it. But he is doing the best he can to change the nature of the club.

He is flawed. A flawed genius? I’m not so sure. He has made errors and is working to put that right and I hope in time he’ll be a great manager for us.

But... the way some eulogizing about him on here, you’d think he had got us promoted or won a cup.

Did you even read the opening post? Or you’ve just made a load of assumptions? Looks like you have basically.

 

[Sergei's Celebration]

Jesus wept, the stench of self-congratulation on this thread is so overwhelming that I am going to have to lie down for a couple of hours.

I'm just checking that we are still 16th in the league and not on the brink of claiming a place in Europe.

I wish the bloke all the best and want his team to do brilliantly, but for ****'s sake, rein it in. Let's get a few more points on the boards shall we?

You're confusing courage with success.

 

[Icy Gull]

Lose a couple and there will be an opportunity for the “Potter’s Phenomenal Arrogance is taking us down” thread

 

[Guinness Boy]

I wasn’t having a pop at Moyes or the other managers. I wasn’t getting into this ‘weird’ argument of who out coached who either. Moyes has done brilliantly, as I think I stated Dyche has done. Speak to West Ham fans (I have 2 close ST holding friends) and they accept Moyes default position is a cautious one. Mourinho’s is too and he’s won everything in the game. Moyes is a very good manager, but I’m not sure many would say he’s an innovative risk taking coach, like say Rogers who you’ve already mentioned. The point of courage was that with a very real threat of relegation hanging over the team, we’ve still played expansive attacking innovative football. It wasn’t a critique of other methods.

You did say that a couple of times in the OP to be fair, so perhaps I was reading between the lines a bit too much.

The thing is you've lumped a lot of managers together - "I think it is fairly easy to take the Allardyce, Hodgson, Dyche, Bruce even Smith and Moyes approach of practicalities and probabilities over creativity and intent." We all know that Hodgson gets a hard time on here because of who he manages but there's also been plenty of narfing when West Brom switched to Allardyce and Bruce has been slaughtered on here. I don't think of Moyes or Dyche in the same bracket in any way.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

And to add to this the re-defining of more established squad players. Solly, reborn as a wing back and one of our best performers this season. Ditto Gross who has moved into deeper roles to impact games in a different way.

Not sure he can take credit for Gross, CH had done that in games, Everton away in our first season.

Gross is just a very intelligent player.

Can’t deny Solly though, he was already a good underrated player, now he is a VERY good and still underrated player.


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[Guinness Boy]

Not sure he can take credit for Gross, CH had done that in games, Everton away in our first season.

Gross is just a very intelligent player.

Can’t deny Solly though, he was already a good underrated player, now he is a VERY good and still underrated player.


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Gross is a wonderful player. If he was quicker he'd be playing right at the very top of the game, and by that I mean Top 6 / German International / lots of trophies. Up to the purchases of Veltman and Lamptey he's been by far our best value acquisition.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

That's a 'get the popcorn out' comment.

I can hear the Hughton Defence League sharpening their keyboards.

Yes.

I’ll start....

Yet we still stayed up!!!

There are different ways to play football, (and apparently yield similar results).


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[One Teddy Maybank]

He's OK with some pf the older ones too - Veltman was supposedly a laughing stock in the Dutch league and amongst Ajax fans.

Great call.

Signing of the season by any PL club IMO.


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[One Teddy Maybank]

Oddly I think both of you are 100% correct.

It feels like the polar opposite camps of GPotts rein have considerably more in common than either faction would be comfortable in admitting.


It's not hard to imagine what NSC would be like if the Albion had actually lost to a Southampton side completely devoid of confidence and 11 men in black and white who'd seemingly rather saw off their own scrotum than win, last Saturday.

All you have to do is swap the word courage for w**ker.

[emoji23][emoji23] so true....


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[One Teddy Maybank]

Lose a couple and there will be an opportunity for the “Potter’s Phenomenal Arrogance is taking us down” thread

Very good [emoji23].

I think analysis of Potter in/out’ polls would be interesting..... broken down by individual.


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[One Teddy Maybank]

Gross is a wonderful player. If he was quicker he'd be playing right at the very top of the game, and by that I mean Top 6 / German International / lots of trophies. Up to the purchases of Veltman and Lamptey he's been by far our best value acquisition.

Lamptey worries me, whilst this is his first significant injury, given the pace he runs at I wonder whether there will be ongoing issues.

See Robbens and Buckley.....


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[Guinness Boy]

Lamptey worries me, whilst this is his first significant injury, given the pace he runs at I wonder whether there will be ongoing issues.

See Robbens and Buckley.....


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Hamstrings are a worry with any really quick player and it's possible he's still developing.

Tremendous potential for what we paid though. If he stays relatively fit we have an absolute lightning player who we can probably sell on for a large profit, should we need. If he is a crock he's cost us very, very little in comparative terms (and yes, I do remember our £1000 and a set of tracksuits bargain!).

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

Hamstrings are a worry with any really quick player and it's possible he's still developing.

Tremendous potential for what we paid though. If he stays relatively fit we have an absolute lightning player who we can probably sell on for a large profit, should we need. If he is a crock he's cost us very, very little in comparative terms (and yes, I do remember our £1000 and a set of tracksuits bargain!).

Now OGH was a bargain...

So was Brian Horton £30k from Port Vale, only mentioned as I was talking about the transfer fees with a friend recently....


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[Weststander]

Now OGH was a bargain...

So was Brian Horton £30k from Port Vale, only mentioned as I was talking about the transfer fees with a friend recently....


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Same era, also Peter Ward ....... for £4,000.

 

[SweatyMexican]

I give it 1 lost game before we start saying he’s lost the pott again.