[News] Nigel Farage and Reform

[Deportivo Seagull]

Certainly there would be Tory voters in Labour seats would be willing to vote Reform to get Labour out.

But there is also great potential for traditional Labour supporters to vote Reform. In spite of the red wall collapse of the Labour vote against Boris Johnson - and that vote didn't come back very far last time, even though the seats did - it is still not widely recognised that Labour no longer represents the views of a lot of their former supporters. For one thing, a lot of them still oppose the idea that foreign governments should have overriding powers over the UK. For another, the policy of all parties that has been running for years, that a working man with a family should pay higher taxes so that a non-working man with a family can have the same standard of living is not popular. Releasing criminals from jail is not popular. Mass immigration to drive wages down is not popular.

Even Burnley elected a Tory MP in 2019. If traditional Labour supporters have absolutely turned against Labour, then Reform (whose economic policies in some respects are left of Labour, especially in respect of tax on workers) is an obvious choice.

Do us a favour and state how reform will address the points mentioned above because I can’t find then anywhere. Ta.

 

[Peteinblack]

They will go through as many leaders as they think. How many did they have in opposition last time ?

No idea who they will choose. Inevitably they will return more to the centre .


Yes scraping around the at the bottom, but Cleverly is clearly far more relatable than Jenrick.

I'm not so sure. In Britain, under our electoral system, general elections are usually won by parties competing on the centre ground.

But most Tory MPs are now economically, and often culturally, on the Right; heirs of Thatcher. They are convinced that what we need is more of the same policies that we have endured for the last 45 years: more privatisation, more contracting-out of public services, more tax-cuts for the better-off (and BS about this presaging a trickle-down of wealth from the mega-rich), more cuts in welfare and attacks on the poor, more law-and-order, more denunciations of immigration, and more divisive Culture War nonsense.

Yet, much of the previously-Conservative middle-class is now suffering the consequences of four decades of rabid Right-wingery and 'market mania' - chronic job insecurity and redundancies in former jobs-for-life (the 'precariat'), attacks on occupational pensions, stagnant salaries and reduced opportunities for career progression, and seeing their adult 'children' saddled with student debt, unable to afford to buy a house, and facing the impact of accelerating Climate Change.

The dominant Tory Right now mirrors the old Soviet Communists - wedded to a cruel and failed ideology, but unwilling to admit this. Instead, they insist that the ideology and its policies either needs to be enforced more vigorously, or given more time to work, or has been sabotaged by Leftist elements in the 'deep state' (the Liz Truss argument). The old One Nation Tories who would have pulled the Conservatives back to the centre-ground are either long-since dead (Ian Gilmour, who I greatly admired and respected), semi-retired from front-line politics (Chris Patten, Michael Heseltine), or have resigned/been expelled from the Conservative Party (Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Rory Stewart, Justine Greening).

Even if the Conservative Party did move back to the centre-ground, it would lose more support to Reform UK from the swivel-eyed Hard Right who accused Rishi Sunak of being a Leftie pandering to 'Woke'. Yet if the Tories continue chasing Reform - as I think they will, given the ideological (im)balance in the Party - they will lose even more support from the dwindling number of moderate/liberal/pro-European Tories, many of whom switched to Labour/Lib Dems/Greens in last year general lection, and this month's local elections.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Which reform policies are left of Labour?

Worth noting they only count if they won’t crash the economy.

I assume all the times they go against workers rights are included here?

Increasing tax threshold so that lower paid people pay less tax.

Not all workers are in favour of workers' rights in the way you might think. For example, people with no intention of taking sick days went they aren't ill are not necessarily in favour of sick pay from day 1. And they aren't necessarily in favour of full employment rights from day one either. If their employer is stuck with someone who can't or won't do the job well enough, then the rest of the staff have to cover.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

Increasing tax threshold so that lower paid people pay less tax.

Not all workers are in favour of workers' rights in the way you might think. For example, people with no intention of taking sick days went they aren't ill are not necessarily in favour of sick pay from day 1. And they aren't necessarily in favour of full employment rights from day one either. If their employer is stuck with someone who can't or won't do the job well enough, then the rest of the staff have to cover.

Really .., where do you work because I can’t think of anyone who’d support the binning of sick pay from day 1?
Planet @dsr-burnley sounds particularly grim!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Increasing tax threshold so that lower paid people pay less tax.

Not all workers are in favour of workers' rights in the way you might think. For example, people with no intention of taking sick days went they aren't ill are not necessarily in favour of sick pay from day 1. And they aren't necessarily in favour of full employment rights from day one either. If their employer is stuck with someone who can't or won't do the job well enough, then the rest of the staff have to cover.

I'm glad I don't work for you. You default to 'the other people are all scroungers swinging the lead etc'.

I can remember the 80s when I had three operations in 18 months and ended up with a written warning from work. That caused me more stress, and my work suffered. All time off was covered by sick notes, but procedure had to take place!

Farage has said women cannot take bereavement leave after a miscarriage or still birth.

 

[Bodian]

For example, people with no intention of taking sick days went they aren't ill are not necessarily in favour of sick pay from day 1.

Can you provide a source for this statement / evidence please.

 

[TomandJerry]

Can you provide a source for this statement / evidence please.

To be fair, it can be tricky providing source's for what some bloke in Wetherspoon's is saying

 

[nevergoagain]

To be fair, it can be tricky providing source's for what some bloke in Wetherspoon's is saying

Reece ?

 

[darkwolf666]

Can you provide a source for this statement / evidence please.

Don't be bloody stupid, of course he can't. All his claims are loosely worded so as not to be definitive statements!

 

[Motogull]

I wonder how many Farage lovers are big users of the NHS?

 

[HalfaSeatOn]

Don’t know what’s going on in alternative media land but wife’s brother phoned her earlier upset and emotional that Reform was going to cut his benefits. He has serious mental health challenges. Took half an hour to calm him down. Bloody modern world.

 

[AlbionBro]

Starmer attack on Farage really makes him looks like a desperate man. Come on Starmer start acting like a leader, not a clueless clown, he is dragging the whole of labour into the gutter.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Starmer attack on Farage really makes him looks like a desperate man. Come on Starmer start acting like a leader, not a clueless clown, he is dragging the whole of labour into the gutter.

Thanks for popping in.

 

[Berty23]

Increasing tax threshold so that lower paid people pay less tax.

Not all workers are in favour of workers' rights in the way you might think. For example, people with no intention of taking sick days went they aren't ill are not necessarily in favour of sick pay from day 1. And they aren't necessarily in favour of full employment rights from day one either. If their employer is stuck with someone who can't or won't do the job well enough, then the rest of the staff have to cover.

In my 20 years at current place I had 15 days off sick. In the last 2 months I have had about 5 weeks off. This was caused by a freak accident from which I am still recovering. This could easily happen to someone on day 2. These made up people you mention sound like typical reform voters who think that the changes will impact other people rather than them. The classic reform line. It is like thinking equality law means brown people get rights but then they moan if older people are discriminated against.

Ps. I said costed didnt I?

What is being cut to allow the tax threshold rising? You can’t say nett zero scrapping because that has already been dismissed at not capable of even covering previous fairy stories.

 

[El Presidente]

In my 20 years at current place I had 15 days off sick. In the last 2 months I have had about 5 weeks off. This was caused by a freak accident from which I am still recovering. This could easily happen to someone on day 2. These made up people you mention sound like typical reform voters who think that the changes will impact other people rather than them. The classic reform line. It is like thinking equality law means brown people get rights but then they moan if older people are discriminated against.

Ps. I said costed didnt I?

What is being cut to allow the tax threshold rising? You can’t say nett zero scrapping because that has already been dismissed at not capable of even covering previous fairy stories.

Was It one of those freak accidents where you accidently sat on Henry the Hoover’s nozzle and it buried itself up your back passage? We’ve all been there TBF

 

[Norman Potting]

In the farming industry this is rubbish. Salaries are generally good but the work is harder compared to in many industries and you cant WFH. If there is an issue with the level of wages then it will be related to ability pay given the low profitability of farms largely because of the intense price pressure from supermarkets. This work for consumers of course but also for the multiples that report huge annual profits.

There is also a seasonal issue. Veg farmers, for example, need a very large workforce for c 4 months of the year but only a very small number out of season. The only affordable and practical solution is seasonal/temporary labour. The pay can be extremely good but it is by its nature also extremely hardwork and can be in inclement weather. Neither appeals to 99% of our so called unemployed workforce.

O

And we know what happened the following year....

We won the World Cup. ?

 

[jcdenton08]

Was It one of those freak accidents where you accidently sat on Henry the Hoover’s nozzle and it buried itself up your back passage? We’ve all been there TBF

No wonder he had a big smile on his face

 

[Berty23]

Was It one of those freak accidents where you accidently sat on Henry the Hoover’s nozzle and it buried itself up your back passage? We’ve all been there TBF

That sounds much more fun than taking a drive at golf on the back of the head!

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Starmer attack on Farage really makes him looks like a desperate man. Come on Starmer start acting like a leader, not a clueless clown, he is dragging the whole of labour into the gutter.

Tell me how a more left wing Labour man, to more of your apparent taste as a former Labour man, would of dealt with it all.?

(I am beginning to believe you have gone all right wing, despite your former socialist credentials. )

 

[dsr-burnley]

To be fair, it can be tricky providing source's for what some bloke in Wetherspoon's is saying

Exactly. Someone on here willing to think. Anecdotal evidence of what some voters are thinking is not easily sourced.