[News] Nigel Farage and Reform

[Berty23]

Nice rant, not sure it's got a lot to do with him being on holiday though

How can anyone trust someone who wants to ban working from home for public sector employees when he is a public sector employee who takes holiday the week before his “office” shuts for a week. Mad that people lap it up.

The voice of the working class? Do they know he wants to stop sick pay from day 1 and remove loads of other protections? He is in the pocket of big business and it is mental how people fall for his lines.

 

[Guinness Boy]

You're just reaching now, there is a difference as I said above. Could you answer the question I asked of you ?.

The question about deportation is simple. If they are here legally then they get treated as any other person who is here legally. If they are here illegally then by definition they shouldn’t be, regardless of whether they’ve committed other crimes that you seem unable to set a bar for.

 

[nevergoagain]

The question about deportation is simple. If they are here legally then they get treated as any other person who is here legally. If they are here illegally then by definition they shouldn’t be, regardless of whether they’ve committed crimes that you seem unable to set a bar for.

That doesn't make sense. If a British citizen commits a crime and a foreign national commits the same crime then yes the same legal punishment but where are you setting the bar with regards deportation ? are you happy with the current 1 year custodial sentence as being the bar?

 

[darkwolf666]

Dangerous ground there be very careful what you try and suggest. I don't like criminals full stop.

So, if it's not foriegners you don't like, why do you want to treat them differently to home-grown criminals?

 

[Guinness Boy]

That doesn't make sense. If a British citizen commits a crime and a foreign national commits the same crime then yes the same legal punishment but where are you setting the bar with regards deportation ? are you happy with the current 1 year custodial sentence as being the bar?

It’s quite clear. If someone is here legally and commits a crime then they go to court and get tried and sentenced just as you or I would. The fact they were born elsewhere is utterly irrelevant. If they get picked up for something and it’s found they’re here illegally then the punishment should really be removal shouldn’t it? Though there’s the issue I pointed out to N1 gull that their original country might not be able to accept them.

You might want to think about if the crime was as serious as rape or murder though. In those cases would you kick them out immediately or after their sentence?

 

[Bodian]

Do we know yet why Nigel didn’t turn up to the Houses of Parliament, which I am led to believe is his workplace last week for debates, but instead took a holiday and now the house is in recess he has reappeared asking for a debate?

Because he is an attention / headline seeking egotist who doesn't actually want to be challenged in a debate and shown up. He'd rather complain about others not making stuff happen than actually tray and make it happen himself.

Domestic violence 100% yes, if you're pre-disposed to beating up your wife/husband then you no longer deserve to be a guest of our country.

Would their wife/husband have to be deported with them - because legally they would still be married.

 

[clapham_gull]

The question about deportation is simple. If they are here legally then they get treated as any other person who is here legally.

Anything else would be a bit (cough, cough) two tier ?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

How can anyone trust someone who wants to ban working from home for public sector employees when he is a public sector employee who takes holiday the week before his “office” shuts for a week. Mad that people lap it up.

The voice of the working class? Do they know he wants to stop sick pay from day 1 and remove loads of other protections? He is in the pocket of big business and it is mental how people fall for his lines.

It’s not just sick pay, he wants to remove maternity leave after miscarriages, bereavement leave as a right etc

 

[BadFish]

Anything else would be a bit (cough, cough) two tier ?

We know that Nige likes a two tier immigration system as he works for a company that makes it happen for rich people.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

A fine Banksy portrait in Clacton but the council painted over it within days.

 

[nevergoagain]

So, if it's not foriegners you don't like, why do you want to treat them differently to home-grown criminals?

Sigh.... because we have enough British born idiots/criminals that we are stuck with so why would we want more foreign born ones to add to them ?. It's really not difficult is it. Treat them same legally but if you are a guest in our country and cannot behave then you shouldn't still be here. I note you still haven't answered my question to you.

 

[nevergoagain]

It’s quite clear. If someone is here legally and commits a crime then they go to court and get tried and sentenced just as you or I would. The fact they were born elsewhere is utterly irrelevant. If they get picked up for something and it’s found they’re here illegally then the punishment should really be removal shouldn’t it? Though there’s the issue I pointed out to N1 gull that their original country might not be able to accept them.

You might want to think about if the crime was as serious as rape or murder though. In those cases would you kick them out immediately or after their sentence?

So what you are saying then is that if you are not a British National and you commit a serious crime then you shouldn't be deported. If that's what you are saying, and it clearly is, as to treat them like you or I means to not deport them as we cannot be deported from our own country. If that's your opinion then that's fine, I find it ludicrous but each to their own. Does this mean you would support scrapping the 1 year custodial tariff whereby foreign offenders are meant to be automatically deported ?.

Rape/Murder and the most serious offences I've said before to make them serve sentence here and then deport as highly unlikely they will serve a similar sentence in their native country.

 

[nevergoagain]

Would their wife/husband have to be deported with them - because legally they would still be married.

Interesting question, I don't really know. Does removal of immigration entitlement from one person then translate to spouse automatically or are they assessed independently. I wouldn't of course be suggesting that the spouse be deported if they have their own right to stay.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Sigh.... because we have enough British born idiots/criminals that we are stuck with so why would we want more foreign born ones to add to them ?. It's really not difficult is it. Treat them same legally but if you are a guest in our country and cannot behave then you shouldn't still be here. I note you still haven't answered my question to you.

Define guest. If someone has been given asylum, they are no longer a guest.

You keep emphasising rape and murder, which are, thankfully, rare crimes, and, mostly committed by white British, yes, even grooming gangs.

 

[BadFish]

Sigh.... because we have enough British born idiots/criminals that we are stuck with so why would we want more foreign born ones to add to them ?. It's really not difficult is it. Treat them same legally but if you are a guest in our country and cannot behave then you shouldn't still be here. I note you still haven't answered my question to you.

When does an immigrant stop being a 'guest' and become a 'resident?'

I am an Australian Citizen but am UK-born, would I be deported?

What about someone who is a permanent resident?

 

[darkwolf666]

Sigh.... because we have enough British born idiots/criminals that we are stuck with so why would we want more foreign born ones to add to them ?. It's really not difficult is it. Treat them same legally but if you are a guest in our country and cannot behave then you shouldn't still be here. I note you still haven't answered my question to you.

Which question was that, as you appear to have avoided mine, too regarding the spouse of someone deported for common assault or domestic violence?

 

[Guinness Boy]

So what you are saying then is that if you are not a British National and you commit a serious crime then you shouldn't be deported. If that's what you are saying, and it clearly is, as to treat them like you or I means to not deport them as we cannot be deported from our own country. If that's your opinion then that's fine, I find it ludicrous but each to their own. Does this mean you would support scrapping the 1 year custodial tariff whereby foreign offenders are meant to be automatically deported ?.

You know what I'm saying because I've posted it twice. Deportation should be on a case by case basis and not on a blanket rule in my opinion.

Rape/Murder and the most serious offences I've said before to make them serve sentence here and then deport as highly unlikely they will serve a similar sentence in their native country.

That will be a long sentence though so what would you do if their native country no longer exists. War torn countries are forever at risk of having their borders redrawn. More so in unstable areas but even in my living memory close to home we've had countries emerge from the former USSR, Czechoslovakia split and Germany reunite. It's possible that anyone from the occupied area of Ukraine can't be sent home nor people from Gaza, yet I'd suggest those are the people far more likely to be looking to escape their home.

 

[nevergoagain]

When does an immigrant stop being a 'guest' and become a 'resident?'

I am an Australian Citizen but am UK-born, would I be deported?

What about someone who is a permanent resident?

When they become a citizen of the country. I'm assuming you are in Australia so as an Australian you cannot be deported from that country, not sure what the rules say if you are a dual national. If you have indefinite leave to remain then you are still here as a guest of our country and as such can be deported.

 

[darkwolf666]

When they become a citizen of the country. I'm assuming you are in Australia so as an Australian you cannot be deported from that country, not sure what the rules say if you are a dual national. If you have indefinite leave to remain then you are still here as a guest of our country and as such can be deported.

If you have ILR you are able to apply for UK citizenship, and would then escape your dog catcher net!

 

[BadFish]

When they become a citizen of the country. I'm assuming you are in Australia so as an Australian you cannot be deported from that country, not sure what the rules say if you are a dual national. If you have indefinite leave to remain then you are still here as a guest of our country and as such can be deported.

Seems like a very convoluted system you have going there. I have to agree with GB here, keep it simple and avoid the complex blanket rule idea.

Of course the case-by-case basis is not to be the baby thrown out with the bath water, assuming it falls within the ECHR.

Out of interest, given this is clearly an issue close to your heart, how many people are currently serving time in the UK that you think should have been deported?