[News] Nigel Farage and Reform

[nevergoagain]

Your questions are not on the point I was specifically asking. You stated that "far too often the system is played and they are allowed to remain due to human rights." So, I was asking you for numbers. That is - how many people have played the system and been allowed to remain because of human rights?

Don't deflect into a discussion about what offenders should be deported, or what crimes should we deport for. Just provide evidence on the specific point you raised and I was asking about.


So, now looking at the one you have provided a link for. Yes - I can see he was a) an immigrant, and b) was placed of the offences register (but not actually jailed). But it's less clear that he was 'playing the system and was allowed to stay because of human rights'. It says he applied for asylum and appealed. Surely you agree that if we have an asylum application process it has to run it's course? Or are you saying that anyone committing any crime should simply not be allowed to apply for asylum?

I can ask what I like can't I ?.

Do I think anyone committing any crime should not be allowed to apply for asylum ?, well yes. Why would we want to give asylum to someone who is unable to stay within the boundaries of our laws. Perhaps minor crimes maybe, but in general absolutely.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I can ask what I like can't I ?.

Do I think anyone committing any crime should not be allowed to apply for asylum ?, well yes. Why would we want to give asylum to someone who is unable to stay within the boundaries of our laws. Perhaps minor crimes maybe, but in general absolutely.

You can make things up, bullshit and try whataboutism, deflection and refuse to answer any questions about the things you've made up, but then don't go all snowflake when you get called out for it .

 

[Bodian]

I can ask what I like can't I ?.

Do I think anyone committing any crime should not be allowed to apply for asylum ?, well yes. Why would we want to give asylum to someone who is unable to stay within the boundaries of our laws. Perhaps minor crimes maybe, but in general absolutely.

You can ask what you like, yes. But not as 'answers' to a question you're not answering!

By all means if you want a separate discussion on the topics you want to ask about - as it in a different post. meanwhile how about providing some evidence to back up your statements as requested?

 

[nicko31]

I see the ignorant are home from school....

Part of me thinks there is nothing PM Fazza can do to affect me and my middle class family.
So if the people worse off than me who feel downtrodden want to vote him in....then full steam ahead. Fill your worn out boots.
Electoral self-harm is a self-inflicted wound. No sympathy.
Except that Fazza will let the people worse off than me trample on the truly downtrodden, and the brown people.
That's just wrong.
So it does matter that he is vanquished.

And of course the downtrodden are so because the desperate are stealing their lunch.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I can ask what I like can't I ?.

Do I think anyone committing any crime should not be allowed to apply for asylum ?, well yes. Why would we want to give asylum to someone who is unable to stay within the boundaries of our laws. Perhaps minor crimes maybe, but in general absolutely.

Define minor. Speeding? Shoplifting? If the latter is there a difference between being part of an organised gang in a supermarket and a mother with no money left taking some formula for a baby?

But let's say we do deport more people. Firstly, that costs. The cost of Public Expense Removals has been increasing steadily since 2006 and the last available figures show a cost of 32 million. However, the government currently receives some of this back from the EU. So, do you think someone as anti-EU as Nigel should keep taking that money or find it, and the increase from somewhere else? I'd suggest funding by keeping IR35 and further cracking down on tax dodges by contractors. I'm sure you'd agree with that wouldn't you?

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7ce61440f0b65b3de0bd2f/28426_UK_average_costs_involved_in_detaining_each_illegal_immigrant.pdf

And, secondly, where would you deport them to, given some come from warring states with no functional government to accept them?

 

[darkwolf666]

Yes please, if found guilty of a violent or sexual offence. Do you disagree then ?.

Which violence offences, not receiving a prison sentence are you thinking of to deport people. Common Assault, domestic violence?

 

[n1 gull]

Define minor. Speeding? Shoplifting? If the latter is there a difference between being part of an organised gang in a supermarket and a mother with no money left taking some formula for a baby?

But let's say we do deport more people. Firstly, that costs. The cost of Public Expense Removals has been increasing steadily since 2006 and the last available figures show a cost of 32 million. However, the government currently receives some of this back from the EU. So, do you think someone as anti-EU as Nigel should keep taking that money or find it, and the increase from somewhere else? I'd suggest funding by keeping IR35 and further cracking down on tax dodges by contractors. I'm sure you'd agree with that wouldn't you?

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7ce61440f0b65b3de0bd2f/28426_UK_average_costs_involved_in_detaining_each_illegal_immigrant.pdf

And, secondly, where would you deport them to, given some come from warring states with no functional government to accept them?

So are you saying we should accept anyone from a warring state?

 

[Berty23]

Do we know yet why Nigel didn’t turn up to the Houses of Parliament, which I am led to believe is his workplace last week for debates, but instead took a holiday and now the house is in recess he has reappeared asking for a debate?

 

[nevergoagain]

Define minor. Speeding? Shoplifting? If the latter is there a difference between being part of an organised gang in a supermarket and a mother with no money left taking some formula for a baby?

But let's say we do deport more people. Firstly, that costs. The cost of Public Expense Removals has been increasing steadily since 2006 and the last available figures show a cost of 32 million. However, the government currently receives some of this back from the EU. So, do you think someone as anti-EU as Nigel should keep taking that money or find it, and the increase from somewhere else? I'd suggest funding by keeping IR35 and further cracking down on tax dodges by contractors. I'm sure you'd agree with that wouldn't you?

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7ce61440f0b65b3de0bd2f/28426_UK_average_costs_involved_in_detaining_each_illegal_immigrant.pdf

And, secondly, where would you deport them to, given some come from warring states with no functional government to accept them?

Yes I would count speeding as a minor offence. If you're really asking if there's a difference between organised shoplifting gangs and a mother with no money then I'd say you are being deliberately difficult. Let me ask you back, if a foreign migrant, illegal or otherwise, is found to be a persistent offender and part of a shoplifting gang would you say that they deserve to remain in the country ?. If so where would you set the bar ?

If we'd have to pay more, and it really wouldn't be that much more would it £32m in the grand scheme of things is pretty insignificant. You'd then have a reduction in public services costs wouldn't you ?, if they aren't committing so many offences then there's less crimes for the police to investigate/ignore, the deported no longer utilise health, dental, refuse resources etc.. so that might go some way to balance out ?. If it really needed extra funding to pay for it then yes I'm happy to pay some more tax if it's going on the right things.

IR35 - You do make me laugh, what on earth has that got to do with anything, said only to provoke a reaction. I note that whilst you try and pull me up for "Abuse" by quoting Harry's favourite comment that you haven't pulled anyone else up for comments on this thread. I wonder why that might be ?.

 

[n1 gull]

Do we know yet why Nigel didn’t turn up to the Houses of Parliament, which I am led to believe is his workplace last week for debates, but instead took a holiday and now the house is in recess he has reappeared asking for a debate?

I think you will find he can go on holiday whenever he wants and if his constituents aren't happy they can vote him out

Do you know of the other MP's on holiday last week or just Nigel?

 

[nevergoagain]

Which violence offences, not receiving a prison sentence are you thinking of to deport people. Common Assault, domestic violence?

There is of course context to a lot of cases that a judge should rightly consider but yes to both. Mike Amesbury was done for common assault laying into someone whilst he was on the floor and no prison sentence. Domestic violence 100% yes, if you're pre-disposed to beating up your wife/husband then you no longer deserve to be a guest of our country.

Where would you set the bar ?.

 

[Guinness Boy]

So are you saying we should accept anyone from a warring state?

I'm saying you can't legally return them so we need a solution for that situation. If that solution is jail in the UK there's a cost to the UK tax payer.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Yes I would count speeding as a minor offence. If you're really asking if there's a difference between organised shoplifting gangs and a mother with no money then I'd say you are being deliberately difficult. Let me ask you back, if a foreign migrant, illegal or otherwise, is found to be a persistent offender and part of a shoplifting gang would you say that they deserve to remain in the country ?. If so where would you set the bar ?

If we'd have to pay more, and it really wouldn't be that much more would it £32m in the grand scheme of things is pretty insignificant. You'd then have a reduction in public services costs wouldn't you ?, if they aren't committing so many offences then there's less crimes for the police to investigate/ignore, the deported no longer utilise health, dental, refuse resources etc.. so that might go some way to balance out ?. If it really needed extra funding to pay for it then yes I'm happy to pay some more tax if it's going on the right things.

IR35 - You do make me laugh, what on earth has that got to do with anything, said only to provoke a reaction. I note that whilst you try and pull me up for "Abuse" by quoting Harry's favourite comment that you haven't pulled anyone else up for comments on this thread. I wonder why that might be ?.

So now they have to be a persistent offender (unless they're driving a car dangerously, maybe in an area with kids and pets in)?

I mentioned IR35 because you've been going on about it and I wanted to see if you'd actually pay for the policy you've been championing. You've said you'd pay more tax so fair enough. Don't come on here moaning if Nige gets in and you're worse off though.

 

[Berty23]

I think you will find he can go on holiday whenever he wants and if his constituents aren't happy they can vote him out

Do you know of the other MP's on holiday last week or just Nigel?

Which other ones were on holiday last week?

As he did in the EU he is taking people for mugs. Does no work but shouts from the outside. If he ever got power he would be like a dog that chases a car. A confused mess with no idea what to do. Obviously it would be someone else’s fault when the economy tanked when reality hit.

 

[worthingweird]

Worthing gain a Reform councillor...

 

[nevergoagain]

So now they have to be a persistent offender (unless they're driving a car dangerously, maybe in an area with kids and pets in)?

I mentioned IR35 because you've been going on about it and I wanted to see if you'd actually pay for the policy you've been championing. You've said you'd pay more tax so fair enough. Don't come on here moaning if Nige gets in and you're worse off though.

You're just reaching now, there is a difference as I said above. Could you answer the question I asked of you ?.

 

[n1 gull]

Which other ones were on holiday last week?

As he did in the EU he is taking people for mugs. Does no work but shouts from the outside. If he ever got power he would be like a dog that chases a car. A confused mess with no idea what to do. Obviously it would be someone else’s fault when the economy tanked when reality hit.

Nice rant, not sure it's got a lot to do with him being on holiday though

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Nice rant, not sure it's got a lot to do with him being on holiday though

Parliament is in recess this week. Do you take random holidays when your boss has allocated the leave rostas?
Basically, Nigel has had two weeks holiday whereas others have only had one.

 

[darkwolf666]

There is of course context to a lot of cases that a judge should rightly consider but yes to both. Mike Amesbury was done for common assault laying into someone whilst he was on the floor and no prison sentence. Domestic violence 100% yes, if you're pre-disposed to beating up your wife/husband then you no longer deserve to be a guest of our country.

Where would you set the bar ?.

But this is where your argument falls down. Everything to you is black and white…

Common assault could be as little as giving someone a push, who then complains. Would you deport someone for a push?

Again with DV, this comes in many guises and often with counter claims from both parties. So are you suggesting, for example, that a working man (foreigner) who throws a cup at his wife should be deported - leaving the wife and children behind to fend for themselves, potentially costing the state more money!

What exactly is it you don’t like, criminals or just foreigners?

 

[nevergoagain]

But this is where your argument falls down. Everything to you is black and white…

Common assault could be as little as giving someone a push, who then complains. Would you deport someone for a push?

Again with DV, this comes in many guises and often with counter claims from both parties. So are you suggesting, for example, that a working man (foreigner) who throws a cup at his wife should be deported - leaving the wife and children behind to fend for themselves, potentially costing the state more money!

What exactly is it you don’t like, criminals or just foreigners?

Dangerous ground there be very careful what you try and suggest. I don't like criminals full stop.