Naylor on Joel Lynch in todays Argus

[Westdene Seagull]

What part are you struggling with and I will try to explain ?

It is nearly impossible to work out the expense of each Centre of Excellence player but you can have a full cost for the whole department per year.

As each league club gets funding for their Centres, the majority of the costs dont actually fall to that club.

Although clubs do top up this grant if it doesn't cover the total cost, TLO seemed to think that the clubs put in the lions share, they dont.

Any costs that you calculate for Lynch's development is a red herring really because the majority of the costs are covered by the annual grant anyway and not from the clubs own coffers,

I hope this is clear.

I'm struggling because you're providing no evidence - post the figures then !

It's strange that the league would appear to diagree with you - there are rules about paying a reasonable sum for players that have come through the youth system - persumably because it costs clubs a reasonable amount to develop them.

 

[BigGully]

I'm struggling because you're providing no evidence - post the figures then !

It's strange that the league would appear to diagree with you - there are rules about paying a reasonable sum for players that have come through the youth system - persumably because it costs clubs a reasonable amount to develop them.

You are struggling aren't you.

There isn't a definitive answer to any transfer fee, both parties will negotiate and then agree and the deal is struck.

Players that come through the system are registered to the club, similar to a contract and another team cannot sign them.

But if say a 14 year old walks out and says he wants to sign for Chelsea, he can't without his clubs permission, they would still hold his registration.

The likelyhood is that Chelsea would offer a fee for that player, if the club holding that players registration do not accept their offer then it might go to tribunal.

At the tribunal the same dynamics will be argued as any other deal, yes including time spent, money spent but more relevant would be the individual players likely potential and future financial worth.

If as you are inferring any fee must be related to 'money spent' whilst in their system, you wouldnt have say Bostick going for £750 000 and another lad of the same age from the same youth system going for £20 000.

Each player have had equal money spent on them whilst in that same system, yet the fees are vastly different.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

You are struggling aren't you.

There isn't a definitive answer to any transfer fee, both parties will negotiate and then agree and the deal is struck.

Players that come through the system are registered to the club, similar to a contract and another team cannot sign them.

But if say a 14 year old walks out and says he wants to sign for Chelsea, he can't without his clubs permission, they would still hold his registration.

The likelyhood is that Chelsea would offer a fee for that player, if the club holding that players registration do not accept their offer then it might go to tribunal.

At the tribunal the same dynamics will be argued as any other deal, yes including time spent, money spent but more relevant would be the individual players likely potential and future financial worth.

If as you are inferring any fee must be related to 'money spent' whilst in their system, you wouldnt have say Bostick going for £750 000 and another lad of the same age from the same youth system going for £20 000.

Each player have had equal money spent on them whilst in that same system, yet the fees are vastly different.

Surprise surprise - still no figures !!! Just state how much BHA have spent on their youth setup for each of the last five years and how much money has been given towards it by other parties in each of those five years.

 

[The Large One]

Although clubs do top up this grant if it doesn't cover the total cost, TLO seemed to think that the clubs put in the lions share, they dont.

Good f***ing grief. :thud:

 

[BigGully]

Surprise surprise - still no figures !!! Just state how much BHA have spent on their youth setup for each of the last five years and how much money has been given towards it by other parties in each of those five years.

You are hard work.

Last year I think clubs received £138 000 for the 'Academy'.

Its all a red herring, it will not be instrumental on any current or future negotiations.

But if you want to work out a coach with a bag of balls and cones, coaching a group of 15-20 young hopefuls on a quarter of a an astro turf area twice a week for about 7 months a year feel free.

Remember to then take off 75% for the funding received and just to be fair factor in Lynch's parents time and costs ferrying him back and forth eh ?

 

[The Large One]

You are hard work.

Last year I think clubs received £138 000 for the 'Academy'.

Its all a red herring, it will not be instrumental on any current or future negotiations.

But if you want to work out a coach with a bag of balls and cones, coaching a group of 15-20 young hopefuls on a quarter of a an astro turf area twice a week for about 7 months a year feel free.

Remember to then take off 75% for the funding received and just to be fair factor in Lynch's parents time and costs ferrying him back and forth eh ?

Ah, so that's all it takes to run the Academy and Youth set-up.

Jesus wept.

 

[Hoops Seagull]

I too have heard from one of the Albion players that Lynch was found wanting in certain aspects of his attitude towards the job. That does not make him a bad professional.

As for Wendy, I think he is neither the second coming nor the spawn of Beezlebub. He did well in his second season, poor in his first. From the stories I have heard his dismissal was nothing to do with where we finished in the table though.

The reason Dean Willkins was sacked was because he stood up for what was right for his captain Dean Hammond and Dick didn't like it and sacked him - Dick needs to remember that Dean Wilkins was at the club longer than he will be - Yes certain people will slag me off for this but unfortunately not everyone knows what really goes on at the club

Dean Hammond
Bas Savage
George O'callaghan

Are they all wrong??


Ian Chapman and Dean Wilkins have over 30 years LOYAL service for the club and people still believe what Dick Knight says is true

 

[dougdeep]

Yes certain people will slag me off for this but unfortunately not everyone knows what really goes on at the club

Including you.

 

[Hoops Seagull]

Including you.

But I Do

 

[BigGully]

Ah, so that's all it takes to run the Academy and Youth set-up.

Jesus wept.

You really are an odd bod, it was just a sarcastic remark, are you really that stupid not to understand that.

For some reason he demanded I gave him a figure on how much each player coming through our Centre of Excellence would cost ...... it became tiresome.

Lighten up ..........

 

[Jamie]

The fact about Dick Knight is that he inherited a club with no assets and that was heading to the conference. He and his directors are in the process of somehow turniing that around to build a "new goldstone".

As for Naylor. I cant say I like him as the Albion reporter. The rubbish he has written on a number of occasions is a worry. He also forms a view and then writes biased articles. He clearly did not like Wilkins and he cannot force himself to be objective. That is a reflection on Naylor.

I will be honest, I thought and am still hopeful that MA will do a good job and take us to the championship in time for Falmer, but it has to be said that so far, the facts speak for themselves.

As for Lynch, he was clearly better than the players that MA signed, and he knew it. As such he had every right to fall out with MA. Its his career and if he can get a move to Forest, especially when Brighton are not picking him, then its a no brainer. He then asked to leave, and I dont blame him. Its a MA mistake by failing to pick him. It happens, but this nonsense from Andy Naylor writes just takes the piss.

Personally I would like Naylor to go. He just does not cut the mustard

 

[algie]

You really are an odd bod, it was just a sarcastic remark, are you really that stupid not to understand that.

For some reason he demanded I gave him a figure on how much each player coming through our Centre of Excellence would cost ...... it became tiresome.

Lighten up ..........

I get the impression you enjoy stalking TLO? It satisfies you when you manage to pull the carpet from underneath his feet.I can feel it.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

You are hard work.

Last year I think clubs received £138 000 for the 'Academy'.

Its all a red herring, it will not be instrumental on any current or future negotiations.

But if you want to work out a coach with a bag of balls and cones, coaching a group of 15-20 young hopefuls on a quarter of a an astro turf area twice a week for about 7 months a year feel free.

Remember to then take off 75% for the funding received and just to be fair factor in Lynch's parents time and costs ferrying him back and forth eh ?

All you have to state is the facts - if that's hard work it's probably because you don't know what you're talking about.

Forget the player value etc ... I asked you to justify your statement that the Albion don't spend large chunks of their own money on the youth system.

We've got half way - £138k from external sources ( although I note you have to say I think - rather than this is definate ). So how much of our own money did BHA spend on the youth system last year ?

I'll also point out I asked you to quote the last five years - you didn't because you know f*** all about it - AND because you're avoiding the direct question but councillors do that don't they !!!!!

I'm beginning to wish I'd followed TLOs advice and ignored you for the waste of time you are !!!!

 

[Acker79]

Re: Acker79

I think history has been revised both ways. While Harty and Naylor have both taken it to one extreme, people comparing our team to the GG Arsenal team are taking it far too much the other way. Some of the football played last season, as this season, was absolutely dire. They also spent a fair amount of time in the bottom half of the table. It's not like we were consistently 7th throughout the year.

I didn't mean to suggest the quality of football was on a par with arsenal. I was merely highlighting that the idea of putting grinding out wins ahead of beautiful football wasn't a new idea, and wasn't something that won't lead to success, that it had worked for others.

I saw about 10 games last season and only one of those games did I consider dire. (v Forest at home). But I'm not denying that some people considered the football dire, but it was successful, which is more than can be said for this season (so far). Yeah, we slipped down the table last year, but were never in the relegation zone as far as I remember, and while some of the more negative fans may have talked of foreseeing relegation, we were never actually staring at relegation dogfights the way we have this year.

I can't understand how anyone can paint Wilkins' achievements last season as anything other than successful. Not necessarily a resounding success, or amazing success, but compared to the previous two seasons, compared to how things are going now, it was a successful season. He deserves better.

 

[The Large One]

I get the impression you enjoy stalking TLO? It satisfies you when you manage to pull the carpet from underneath his feet.I can feel it.

Oh great, two prats stalking me.

I will say this - at least you have a modicum of intelligence when talking about the Albion. Big Gully just makes stuff up.

Other than that, f*** off you racist turd.

 

[smudge]

My own personal opinion on Joel lynch. He went big time charlie too soon & he is a bit soft. One good season, then nothing but injuries & whingeing.
Get some money, get rid.

 

[BigGully]

All you have to state is the facts - if that's hard work it's probably because you don't know what you're talking about.

Forget the player value etc ... I asked you to justify your statement that the Albion don't spend large chunks of their own money on the youth system.

We've got half way - £138k from external sources ( although I note you have to say I think - rather than this is definate ). So how much of our own money did BHA spend on the youth system last year ?

I'll also point out I asked you to quote the last five years - you didn't because you know f*** all about it - AND because you're avoiding the direct question but councillors do that don't they !!!!!

I'm beginning to wish I'd followed TLOs advice and ignored you for the waste of time you are !!!!

What bit are you finding so hard to follow...

I will try once more , but then my babysitting stint has come to the end and I may choose to debate, argue and piss off someone thats worth it.

It is inevitably difficult to quantify an amount of money for an individual coming through our Centre of Excellence.

Although there is an annual cost, which is mainly funded by through the Football League ( or other ) to a tune of £138 000 for the season 2007/08 this amount is uniform across the league and there might be an increase for season 2008/09.

So although you have an overall cost, we may top up the fund depending on our total costs, the difficulty is based on the number of children that attend from the age of 8yrs old.

You will have triallists coming and going and the amount of time that any child may stay within the system changes weekly, monthly and yearly.

Therefore to try to find a likely cost of Lynch's time is extremely hard, but also as I have said quite irrelevant to his future value.

I suppose you could work on certain assumptions, such as up to 200 children within system at any one time, but thats something you might want to do.

But remember that the lions share is funded from outside the clubs coffers, there is also a moot point in that clubs generally use some of that fund for their scholars and their coaches.

Not sure if thats fair, it certainly takes some of the funding away from the 'Academys', but I will row with you at a later date on that one.

 

[bigbadbonkingbob]

........ took the opportunity to move to a Championship club that now looks like might want to buy him.

I wouldn't bank on it. His performances for Forest simply haven't been good enough to justify a fee - granted he has been playing at left back rather than centre half, but he isn't going to get ahead of Morgan, Wilson, or even probably Chambers at centre half, and there are much better left backs around.

 

[The Large One]

So £138,000 a year pays for the majority of...

Four full-time coaches' salaries
A contribution to Martin Hinshelwood's salary
Scouting salaries and expenses
Insurance
Rent of pitches and grounds
Transport to and from matches/training
Kit & supplies
Food
Education
Legal expenses
Bugger knows what else...

 

[BigGully]

So £138,000 a year pays for the majority of...

Four full-time coaches' salaries
A contribution to Martin Hinshelwood's salary
Scouting salaries and expenses
Insurance
Rent of pitches and grounds
Transport to and from matches/training
Kit & supplies
Food
Education
Legal expenses
Bugger knows what else...

OK thats a start, few mistakes not meant to sound confrontational by the way do not get the hump because you will have to assume what is said is correct.

Full time coaches, apart from Vic Bragg and Martin Hinchelwood, there are none, maybe through the succesful 'community scheme' but they are self financing.

The coaches pick up a few quid expenses and maybe something on £15.00 per session.

We had Ian Chapman, John Byrne and Russel Bromage for a while but eventually it became too much work with too little financial reward.

No scouts receive a salary, but will sometimes receive expenses ...

Insurance and legal stuff is given on mass through the FA, I am not sure if that expense falls with us or not, but would be greatly subsidised.

Food .... youngsters bring their own food on home match days, no food at the CoE.

Kit...yes, not boots, lots of recycled kit.

Education, not within the Centre of Excellence

Expenses are NOT given to children within the system, that is paid by the parents.

Also there is a mini bus, probably sponsored.

Fuel costs and then match kit ... yes

I will try and think of some more, the really important point, is this.

It seems clubs use some of the funding to pay wages to the scholars and their coaches, not sure if thats what the fund was initally set up for.

Every league club has always had Scholars, Apprentices or Groundstaff and coaches to look after them, not sure why the funding should be used for that part, maybe giving extra funding to the system might help keep quality coaches as Chapman, Byrne and Bromage close to those youngsters.

It is critical for talented youngsters to receive top top coaching in the Academy age ranges of 8 - 16 yrs and maybe thats where the funding should stay.