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Improve the country in a year...
- Thread starter red star portslade
- Start date
Baron Pepperpot
Active member
Add to this that properly affordable housing should be recognised as a human right.
Baron Pepperpot
Active member
Did someone really say a flat rate of tax for everyone ? Blimey, when is the next meeting of 1922 committee ?
Taking the required mean tax average, that would mean the poorest would be handing cash to richest.
Taking the required mean tax average, that would mean the poorest would be handing cash to richest.
greyseagull
New member
Change the drink drive limit - no drink whatsoever before getting behind the wheel; and make it compulsory for over 70s to re-take their driving test.
Agree 100% with that. It has always baffled me that even lots of lefties don't realize that this is the only fair system of taxation. I almost came to blows with my lefty brother some years ago about this (well, he sounded like he would swing for me, and I was thankful the conversation was by phone with 50 miles between us).
People simply don't get the maths. I do not understand how the Labour party can say it is 'fairer' to tax the rich at a higher % because they should pay 'more' (this is still labour policy). And . . . that if the poor pay the same % tax as the rich this is unfair on the poor. Doh! Twenty per cent of 15 grand is 3 grand. Twenty percent of 150 grand is 30 grand. Flat rate tax means the more money you earn the more MONEY you pay in tax, and its proportionate. To me, no only is that fair, it is socialist. Why do so many 'socialists' think it is unfair?
It is also Tory policy too to tax the richer at a higher % than the poor. Extraordinary! It seems the Tories are just as thick or gutless as Labour on this issue. I can't be arsed to look it up, but I would imagine it is also UKIP, EDL and CPGB policy too. Are they all thick
And 'no exceptions' is also correct. That way there would be no need to have such a massive Inland Revenue, no need for income tax returns, no need for tax advisors, etc etc. Moreover, when elections come round, the parties could cost their policies in relation to how much % income tax they would set, and we wouldn't have to spend hours scratching our heads at election time or relying on the Sun Mail and Mirror to shout as us about how much better or worse 'we' would be if we voted for 'them'. It would all be incontestable.
Its not *that* simple, of course. What would the flat rate of tax actually be if we switched today and total revenue were to remain the same? My guess is it would need to be around 20%, with most of the savings from the lack of need for 'paperwork'. But I could be quite wrong. Maybe the rate would be closer to what it is now for most of us. Self employed would still need to do a tax return. Anybody have any insight about this?
Of course the business fiddles would need to be dealt with too. If you 'trade' in the UK you should pay UK tax . . . how Google, Amazon, iTUNES etc get away with paying so little tax in the UK is criminal. Even the tories can't argue that if we made these people pay 'proper' tax they would just take their trade overseas - the whole point is they are selling in the UK - that's the business . . . criminal negligence to let them do this.
Sales tax is a tricky separate issue. The nominal income tax rate depends on the sales tax rate and vice versa. Sales tax arguably should be low because unlike a fixed % income tax, any sales tax disproportionately hits the poor (because for any item, the rich and the poor will be paying the same AMOUNT of tax since the amount is % of the retail costs, not the person's income). There are two options. My favourite is to live with it. It incentivises the poor to work harder if by doing so it would make their food and clothes 'feel' less expensive, and increase options for buying nicer things. Also, it would not be 'fair' to tax a poor person 20 p on a pint of milk, but tax a rich person £2 for the same pint of milk. In any case, rich people buy more expensive things (from organic milk to big expensive homes, cars and holidays) so they pay more sales tax as they spend more. That's 'fair'.
So sales tax is only tricky in terms of setting levels differently for the nature of the goods (bread vs fags, for example). But that is more a matter of social policy than economics.
Anyway - I was determined to not engage with this - bugger!
jgmcdee
New member
- Mar 25, 2012
- 931
That would massively increase deaths due to dehydration. Are you sure you've thought this one through?
cjd
Well-known member
Send all 'Lefties' to "Jealousy re-habilliatation" classes.
Send all 'Right-Wing extremists' to a refugee camp.
All people over 55 years old to be encouraged to smoke, eat chocolate, cream, fatty foods, and abstain from exercise......and thoroughly enjoy their later years.
The above age group to be boiled upon death in large vats and re-constituted as fuel.
Send all 'Right-Wing extremists' to a refugee camp.
All people over 55 years old to be encouraged to smoke, eat chocolate, cream, fatty foods, and abstain from exercise......and thoroughly enjoy their later years.
The above age group to be boiled upon death in large vats and re-constituted as fuel.
Baron Pepperpot
Active member
It is unfair because 3 grand to a person earning 15 grand is worth a lot more than 30 grand to someone earing 150k. It puts a disproportionate burden on the lower classes. Consider other taxes too, that everyone pays equally. It would shift the burden to poorer people in society.
happypig
Staring at the rude boys
All unemployed to get free Sky TV - don't see why my taxes should go to Murdoch's evil empire.
Get rid of all nuclear weapons and use the money to start a huge house building program, some for rent and some for sale. Those that are sold to have a covenant imposed so that they cannot be sold for a profit above what the market has risen by.
No government minister can be in charge of a department that he/she hasn't qualifications in (so Education secretary must be a former teacher, defence minister must have served in the armed forces etc).
Any sport involving a national team to be free to view.
Railways to be re-nationalised and run by a Swiss management team.
Electricity, gas and water re-nationalised and run by a German management team.
Prison sentences to be served in full, unless they misbehave in which case time is added.
Get rid of all nuclear weapons and use the money to start a huge house building program, some for rent and some for sale. Those that are sold to have a covenant imposed so that they cannot be sold for a profit above what the market has risen by.
No government minister can be in charge of a department that he/she hasn't qualifications in (so Education secretary must be a former teacher, defence minister must have served in the armed forces etc).
Any sport involving a national team to be free to view.
Railways to be re-nationalised and run by a Swiss management team.
Electricity, gas and water re-nationalised and run by a German management team.
Prison sentences to be served in full, unless they misbehave in which case time is added.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,320
no, it is exactly worth exactly the same - its 20%. 20% is the same proportion always. ofcourse what you mean is the lower income person needs to spend more on essentials (though ones essentials soon changes as they have more income). you can still have a tax allowance to mitigate this at the bottom. whats more important, and usually completely overlooked, is the concept of flat tax includes NI, which is currently only 2% above ~40k so negates half the "progressive" impact of the 40% rate anyway. .
mattpenfold
New member
- Sep 17, 2011
- 56
I imagine quite a lot baffles you, but in this case the answer is so obvious you have no excuse for not working it out for yourself. The answer of course is that it is not only fair system of taxation, and that it disproportionately affects the lower paid. You know this of course, having read Krugman's critique of flat rate tax, so can you explain your ignorance ?
BensGrandad
New member
Abolish child benefit completely, you chose to have children you pay for them. Make all benefits earnings related to what you have paid in tax; never paid tax dont receive any money in benefit simple. DNA all new born babies to establish father and ensure support until children are 18 years old and thus abolish CSA a not needed. Reform the allocation of social housing so that everybody has the opportunity of 1 bite at the cherry abuse it and be homeless. Give free bus passes to all children at school or college.
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Increase the minimum wage to a decent living wage; say £11.
LargeHadronZugzwang
Active member
Anyone who has got Peter Andre albums stored on any electronic device needs an expensive visa.
Pogue Mahone
Well-known member
- Apr 30, 2011
- 10,749
No competition needed. Clearly Gove's.
The Merry Prankster
Pactum serva
If you choose to work a (let us speculate) 40 hr week for (let us simplify) £40k pa and are taxed at 25% but I choose to work an 80 hour week for £80k pa, please explain to me the fairness of taxing my second £40k at 40%.
Worthingite
Sexy Pete... :D
- Abolish the increased levels of tax for people with more than one job. Why on earth should people who wish to work hard be punished for this?
- Enforce anyone on benefits who is fit to work (after being assessed by a doctor) to work as a volunteer for local charities, or for the local council. It gives them an opportunity to put something constructive on their CV. (Please note: this is not like the scheme run recently where benefits claimants stacked shelves in supermarketa - I'm thinking along the lines of them providing something back to the community around them, rather than making big companies richer)
- Legalise all drugs - the tax generated would prop up the economy.
- Free Nursery places for families earning under £15k a year.
- Enforce anyone on benefits who is fit to work (after being assessed by a doctor) to work as a volunteer for local charities, or for the local council. It gives them an opportunity to put something constructive on their CV. (Please note: this is not like the scheme run recently where benefits claimants stacked shelves in supermarketa - I'm thinking along the lines of them providing something back to the community around them, rather than making big companies richer)
- Legalise all drugs - the tax generated would prop up the economy.
- Free Nursery places for families earning under £15k a year.