ROSM
Well-known member
You can repeat it as many times as you like - it still doesnt detract from my view gained from reading your posts on the subject that you prejudiced to the point of ignorance.
Hillsborough the search for the truth
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You can repeat it as many times as you like - it still doesnt detract from my view gained from reading your posts on the subject that you prejudiced to the point of ignorance.
The Large One
Who's Next?
Sheffield Wednesday FC has issued a formal apology.
Sheffield Wednesday FC welcomes the release of the Hillsborough Independent Panel report and would like to acknowledge the enormous amount of hard work by all involved during what was, and continues to be, an extremely emotive process.
Throughout the compilation stage, the club has worked closely with the panel and the other donating organisations to ensure that, in line with the ethos of maximum disclosure, we have been totally transparent.
Sheffield Wednesday would also like to record its gratitude for the thoroughly dignified manner with which the Hillsborough Family Support Group and its representatives conducted themselves throughout all levels of consultation with the club.
Since the acquisition of Sheffield Wednesday Football Club in December 2010 and the subsequent decision of the previous board to dissolve the former parent company Sheffield Wednesday PLC , chairman Milan Mandaric and the current board of directors have adopted a policy of complete compliance with the requests of the Hillsborough Independent Panel and on behalf of the club would like to offer our sincere condolences and an apology to all the families who have suffered as a consequence of the tragic events of 15 April, 1989.
We can only hope that the publication of the Hillsborough Independent Panel report goes some way to providing the closure sought by all those involved.
The thoughts of everyone at Sheffield Wednesday FC remain with the 96 Liverpool supporters who lost their lives, their families, and the wider Liverpool community who have all been affected so deeply by the disaster of 23 years ago.
ROSM
Well-known member
I wonder which news channels Kelvin Mackenzie and Boris Johnson will appear on today?
The Large One
Who's Next?
The Guardian is running this live.
11:37 BST
Word just in from our Liverpool-based football reporter Andy Hunter who has just sent me a quick note:
Been told the families have just given the panel a standing ovation after what they heard.
A home office spokesman has said its "massive" what's about to come out.
David Cameron to make a statement in the Commons at 1230 today.
11:37 BST
Word just in from our Liverpool-based football reporter Andy Hunter who has just sent me a quick note:
Been told the families have just given the panel a standing ovation after what they heard.
A home office spokesman has said its "massive" what's about to come out.
David Cameron to make a statement in the Commons at 1230 today.
Nor do any of your posts detract from my belief that you are ignoring a commonly held view that Liverpool fans were, at least, partially to blame for the disaster, so nur-ne-bleedin-nur-nur-to-you-too. See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil....Jeez, all three monkeys rolled into one!
Ain't that the truth. Not sure what there is to gain, other than a blind hope of being able to say "I told you so" later on.
Must admit I very rarely watch any politics live (well, never). However Cameron's statement on this might well be worth a watch. Will be live here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19570810
ROSM
Well-known member
let me know which part of this is seemingly difficult for you to grasp:
1) the view was propogated as part of concerted smear effort by south yorkshire police
2) it was given to many media outlets who reported it - only one however gave the view that it was unimpeachably truthful
3) it was examined in detail by the Taylor report
4) it was discounted by that report as casuable factor
5) the same report detailed the smear campaign and criticised it
I'm not ignoring that commonly held view but I have examined the accuracy of that view and how it became commonly held and having done so it has enabled me to discount the relevance and accuracy of it. More importantly it was examined by a far more learned individual than I and he reached a very damning conclusion of it.
Throw your insults around as much as you like. I'm not saying that Liverpool supporters are or were angels. I have heard, seen and read the comments you are referring to.
You may wonder why I'm so concerned on thismatter and why I have ended up doing the research on this?
I actually when working in the channel islands made a particularly tasteless joke about Hillsborough in a pub one night (partly driven by ignorance, drink and bravado). There were a few scousers there who would have liked to lynch me - but one in particular saved my skin by, in a very open minded way, suggested I should take time to read up properly on the causes, activities etc. I read the interim Taylor report and then, when it was published, the detailed one and it changed my view totally.
Perhaps if you take the time to spend just 3 hours of the next few days to read what has been published before or released today you may just change your mind. If you are unable to take that evidence into account in your view point then you are, by definition, being prejudiced.
I don't agree with this. It was a disaster waiting to happen, not necessarily at Hillsborough. It was the design of entrances in most cases when people are channelled into a narrow space. Not only football, any large event. I have been in crushes at Aldershot and the Old Den and it was nothing to do with hooliganism but the design of entrances and exits and the clubs not spending money on safety for whatever reason.
Hindsight would say that KO should have been delayed if there were traffic jams which meant people arrived late, because that causes crushes. As always it takes a disaster for anything to be done.
It is hard to see the problems at Brighton because by luck rather than judgement the Goldstone was much safer than other grounds. Not so sure about Falmer railway station though.
I always tried to arrive early for big games to avoid the panic to get in. But, alas, crowd congestion sometimes meant I arrived late, and once we arived at a crumbling Brisbane Road just before half-time. We got pushed against a wall and instead of getting hemmed in the wall fell down! Chelsea fans got blamed for knocking the wall down later, but it was falling down any way.
The Police cannot control very large crowds then as a visit to a capacity White Hart Lane proved in the late seventies. There is just too many people in a confined space. Fighting broke at that match because people pushed forward trying to get a view of the match. It would not have happened if people were sitting down.
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a commonly held mis-conception I would say.
It was indeed well-known that fans of every club would behave in a certain way at the time of the disaster. People still do behave in a certain way and that is why processes and people are put in place and in roles of responsibility in order to ensure events are executed safely.
Despite the common behaviour of football fans that day, there was no reason why 96 of them should lose their lives had process been followed and had people executed their responsibilities in the way in which they had been trained.
a commonly held mis-conception I would say.
It was indeed well-known that fans of every club would behave in a certain way at the time of the disaster. People still do behave in a certain way and that is why processes and people are put in place and in roles of responsibility in order to ensure events are executed safely.
Despite the common behaviour of football fans that day, there was no reason why 96 of them should lose their lives had process been followed and had people executed their responsibilities in the way in which they had been trained.
ROSM
Well-known member
David Cameron is acting every inch the statesman here. a tough message to give and he is doing it with honesty and gravity
Twinkle Toes
Growing old disgracefully
I hope the idiots who shared their pig-ignorance on this thread are listening to this. They should hang their sorry heads in shame.
So, there we have it. Something for all the doubters coming from the PM's statement.
The report clearly identifies new evidence on how the authorities failed. They failed at "every turn" and lessons had not been learned.
The report goes further than the Taylor report and critisizes the emergency services' responses (not the paramedics on the ground). Had that response been different then the disaster would not have happened.
Deliberate briefings to the media by the emergency services to the press to create mis-truths to develop a false picture of events. Police reports were significantly altered - 164 statements were explicitly amended!
Police officers ran criminal checks on the dead in an
The coroner took blood tests to check alcohol levels from all the deceased including children! All this done to create the impression that drunkeness was to blame. Disgraceful!
Cameron talks of the deceitful behaviour on the part of the senior leadership of South Yorkshire police that was depressingly familiar at the time.
Some victims had reversible asphyxia i.e. after 3.15pm they could have been saved if treated properly. They were not.
The PM's statement leaves us under no illusion. The fans were NOT to blame.
The report clearly identifies new evidence on how the authorities failed. They failed at "every turn" and lessons had not been learned.
The report goes further than the Taylor report and critisizes the emergency services' responses (not the paramedics on the ground). Had that response been different then the disaster would not have happened.
Deliberate briefings to the media by the emergency services to the press to create mis-truths to develop a false picture of events. Police reports were significantly altered - 164 statements were explicitly amended!
Police officers ran criminal checks on the dead in an
The coroner took blood tests to check alcohol levels from all the deceased including children! All this done to create the impression that drunkeness was to blame. Disgraceful!
Cameron talks of the deceitful behaviour on the part of the senior leadership of South Yorkshire police that was depressingly familiar at the time.
Some victims had reversible asphyxia i.e. after 3.15pm they could have been saved if treated properly. They were not.
The PM's statement leaves us under no illusion. The fans were NOT to blame.
Twinkle Toes
Growing old disgracefully
Thank you Mr Cameron. For this erudite address & sincere apology, you have my utmost respect.
"Today's report is black and white. The Liverpool fans were not the cause of the disaster".
There is much detail that needs to be read by everyone, I think, but if one line was ever written to sum it up, it's that. As [MENTION=11828]Twinkle Toes[/MENTION] says, thank you Mr Cameron.
There is much detail that needs to be read by everyone, I think, but if one line was ever written to sum it up, it's that. As [MENTION=11828]Twinkle Toes[/MENTION] says, thank you Mr Cameron.