Everything written there is sensible, and about as accurate an answer as we can ever expect to get all these years later. Sadly Liverpool fans will almost certainly argue the toss.
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Hillsborough the search for the truth
- Thread starter pornomagboy
- Start date
Everything written there is sensible, and about as accurate an answer as we can ever expect to get all these years later. Sadly Liverpool fans will almost certainly argue the toss.
kevo
Well-known member
- Mar 8, 2008
- 9,108
The Taylor Report stated there were not a large number of ticketless fans. Where is the evidence for that?
Was it really only Liverpool and Everton fans who arrived late at grounds just before kick off? Are you seriously suggesting no other clubs did this? Of course, no other teams have fans who drink before matches, do they?
For me the chief factors were bad policing (in particular the crucial decision to open the exit gate to allow fans in), and the policy of having metal-fenced 'pens' inside football grounds from which there was no escape during an emergency (how on earth was that ever allowed to happen?). I think it's clear there was inadequate guidance and signage inside the ground too - how else to explain why the majority of Liverpool fans ended up in one pen, whereas the ones either side had plenty of space? Where were the stewards directing people? Why didn't anyone spot that the centre pen was full (and why was there no means of monitoring the number of fans in each block?) They had cameras watching this and yet nothing was done to block off the centre of the tearrace.
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ROSM
Well-known member
yeah Mystic ROSM strikes again. Another one ticked off the list of standard approaches to threads on Hillsborough.
ROSM
Well-known member
Purely because it will give some people with agendas to claim about ambulance chasing lawyers. I am sympathetic to the cause of the Hillsborough families and have studied it in depth as part of some work I did with the Norman Chester Institute so I do certainly hope that we see a a conclusion to this that is clear and in public.
Which one of the 3 wise monkeys are you then? I believe that many parties were to blame in some way, shape or form. You refuse to remove your blinkers to any outcome other than the one which reinforces your own prejudiced viewpoint.
The Large One
Who's Next?
Hardly prejudiced.
It's the Lord Chief Justice Taylor's viewpoint, extracted from a thorough examination of all available evidence.
It's you who is casting blame upon Liverpool supporters in a manner in which Taylor didn't.
Of course, if you have evidence that shows Taylor to be wrong, let us know.
Superphil
Dismember
What was the Polices reason for doing this?
ROSM
Well-known member
Says the man who wrote that we wont get any closer to the truth after all this time (despite ignoring the contemporaneous work of the Taylor report), and assumes that Liverpool fans will argue the toss whatever the outcome.
Do I have a prejudiced viewpoint? well given that it was based on c500 hours of study and working with people who had conducted further 1000s of hours of study, I have a viewpoint based on that but obviously I've not read the evidence that will be released tomorrow. If there are things in there that need me tochange my views then I will do so.
I possess no evidence, just a useful amount of common sense which leads me to believe that Liverpool fans were far from blameless, along with other parties.
The Large One
Who's Next?
So you think, with you offering no evidence, that Taylor got it wrong and you're right?
TLO, you can play right or wrong, black or white etc etc.. I just believe that any blame should be shared by a multitude of different groups including the Liverpool fans.
The Large One
Who's Next?
Well, evidence suggest otherwise, so your 'belief' isn't relevant here.
It's a discussion forum....................
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
I hope you never get selected for jury service.
Working class pride
Banned
- Feb 14, 2010
- 4,932
I have the impression that if the police had just told the truth from the start and not lied about who opened the gates and various other things then the Sun newspaper article that caused so much offence would never have been written.
However I do wonder why all sides cannot agree on a fundamental truth - nobody, whether policeman or fan set out that day to kill anyone. As such the Justice campaign is for me a difficult one.
The people who made mistakes, and I include the police did not do it on purpose.To send people to jail for making a mistake at work is a big step. The police involved in the Cardiff murder case however, now that really is a scandal, as is the police telling lies about the causes of Hillsborough, but the mistakes were just that, tragic mistakes.
I think I remember we had Leeds that day.
However I do wonder why all sides cannot agree on a fundamental truth - nobody, whether policeman or fan set out that day to kill anyone. As such the Justice campaign is for me a difficult one.
The people who made mistakes, and I include the police did not do it on purpose.To send people to jail for making a mistake at work is a big step. The police involved in the Cardiff murder case however, now that really is a scandal, as is the police telling lies about the causes of Hillsborough, but the mistakes were just that, tragic mistakes.
I think I remember we had Leeds that day.
blueandwhitestripe
New member
- Sep 5, 2012
- 2
Here.....
http://www.fsf.org.uk/uploaded/publications/pdfs/interim%20report%20hillsborough.pdf
and here......
http://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/releases/hillsborough/me8934.pdf
People who state firm and vociferous opinions about Hillsborough without reading these aren't worth listening to unless they were there. As a Wednesday fan the Taylor Report makes for uncomfortable reading but I recommend you do - it's a fascinating document and very thorough.
sir albion
New member
Remember this game well on the box,also i remember the ground was packed solid and i can assure you there was thousands of fans outside the gates trying to barge through.I would dread to think how many people were in that end as it was way way more than it should,ve been and still loads trying to get in.
Liverpool fans in my opinion were a major factor in this terrible tragedy,you can't blame the police for this im afraid,nobody will put there hands up and admit mistakes though.
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Falkor
Banned
- Jun 3, 2011
- 5,673
What report the 1st or 2nd one as there where 2
Great post and exactly how I see it as well, those poor people and their families.............
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
Read from 191-202 in the Taylor report and then try to be less ignorant
http://www.fsf.org.uk/uploaded/publications/pdfs/interim%20report%20hillsborough.pdf
I'll help you by reprinting section 202 for you
202. Secondly, such figures as are available from the Club's electronic monitoring system and from analyses
by the HSE suggest that no great number entered without tickets. They show that the number who passed
through turnstiles A to G plus those who entered through gate C roughly equalled the terrace capacity figure of
10,100 for which tickets had been sold. The Club's record showed 7,038 passed through turnstiles A to G.
However, the counting mechanism on turnstile G was defective, so the HSE did a study using the video film
and projecting figures from the other turnstiles. This gave an assessment of 7,494, with a maximum of 7,644
passing through A to G. Again, using the video, the HSE assessed the number who entered the ground whilst
gate C was open at 2,240 with a maximum of 2,480. Accordingly, the HSE's best estimate of the total entering
through gate C and turnstiles A to G was 9,734 with a maximum of 10,124.1 recognise that these can only be
rough checks because, for example, some with terrace tickets were allowed through turnstiles 1 to 16 and there
would be other similar factors which have not formed part of the assessment. Nevertheless, the figures do
suggest that there was not a very significant body of ticketless fans in the crowd which built up.