Have we got North Korea all wrong?

[beorhthelm]

Indeed, and I don't know why people keep bringing up 'Amnesty International' as saying that human rights are bad, so they must be bad. This group isn't even allowed in North Korea, so again, spreading propoganda. Remember, Amnesty International is an organisation which relies on donations. The worse they make conditions seem, the more money they get and the more goes to the 'fat cats' in charge. To date, we have no hard conclusive evidence that the human rights in North Korea are anything short of ideal, sure, no contact with the outside world, but let's be honest, nobody knows what goes on in the country and it is unlikely that we ever will. So people need to stop making judgments based on 'hearsay'. Of course the people that leave North Korea aren't going to sing praise about it, half the people that leave England don't sing praises about our country.

what a daft string of assumptions. yeah, the fact that Korea doesnt allow people out or in is just typical of a nice happy country. nothing but hearsay, despite the lack of anyone leaving the country singing the praises. i particulalry like how any evidence that there is human rights abuses is totally ignored, and the logical stretch that because this evidence doesnt exist (even though it does), that shows how it must be OK there and everything is propoganda. bonus for casting a charity as "fat cats". 9/10

 

[GreersElbow]

It's totally unfair to compare North Korea's levels of education with developed nations, so if you compare their education to countries with similar wealth they exceed all comparisons. They have a 99.9% literacy rate which is better than many developed nations. They educate their own scientists, doctors, businessmen and other academics. The nations focus on academia & technology is inspirational. They DO draft in foreign academics for help, but we of all nations cannot criticise them for that, if anything we should take a leaf from their book and improve our own production of vital academics rather than stealing them from poorer nations.

In regards to their culture - it is a nation that is very dedicated to the arts. It produces TV and cinema to a very acceptable level. - while they are obviously not up to Western standards, the fact that such a poor nation is capable and doesn't lose focus of these things is admirable. Sport, music and literature also has notable cultural importance & competence in North Korea.



It's important to respect that it is a developing nation. All western nations once had the problem of feeding all its people and many still do. It's also worth noting that the famines are usually caused by environmental problems such as flooding or draughts. Undoubtedly with Western wealth, North Korea could cultivate its land to its full potential and create a stockpile of food, but the same could be said for all other impoverished Asian nations.

...and you are completely wrong about North Korea wanting destroy South Korea - absolute bullshit - in fact their ultimate goal is to reunify with the South and restore true Korean values, it's part of their Juche ideology. They have one main enemy, the USA - and who can blame them? Intimidation and propaganda has been continually coming from the USA since they lost the war.

You may not agree with the personality of cult, it's very different to the way we do things, but it's not dissimilar to Western religion or advertising in our capitalist system - except rather than their people being encouraged to believe in a man in the sky or materialistic values, they have their nation personified into an individual. I don't agree with it, but it's not an argument that is strong enough to have their values destroyed.

North Korea just wants to be self-sufficient, and left alone - with its Korean values unaffected. It's all in their Juche ideology which I would recommend anyone to read more about for a better insight into their political mindset. The best thing the West could do is make peace with North Korea, accept its ways, and help it into prosperity. As the country gets richer, the people would have a greater power to revolt if that is what they wanted - but from what I know, the people are so proud of their nation and its values and fully subscribe to the Juche ideology to the extent that a majority of them would die for it - no exaggeration.

Again, you absolutely fail to source your arguments. So it's basically, "If I write a wall of text, they'll hopefully ignore me". Unfortunately, I'm a prick, and I will read and find flaws in your argument.

They educate their own scientists, doctors, businessmen and other academics - Businessman? What businessman? They're not exactly on the forefront of leading world-wide sales, I'd like see what they're selling that's so brilliant. There's businessmen/women all around the world from all countries. DPRK should not be singled out and applauded for something as minor and quite frankly, irrelevant to the dictatorship as this. They don't choose to be what they are, they're ASSIGNED.

Most nations can develop their own doctors, what's your point? That most 3rd world nations are incapable of doing such a thing? Check out BBC's Junior Doctors: There's an F2 from Malawi on there, you know Malawi - A 3rd world country. You're treating DPRK as though it's a special case, and inspirational to the world in its self-induced struggle for recognition.

They've produced their own scientists and academics, and STILL struggle to feed their population. Not just because of the sanctions, but mainly because of the unfair distribution of already available food. (See my link in the original post for information on that). That's great they're producing scientists and academics, but what are they contributing towards the development of their nation? Most likely weaponry to stave off the imperialists who really want their scarce resources.

it is a nation that is very dedicated to the arts. It produces TV and cinema to a very acceptable level. Arts all dedicated to their beloved leader, who's infallible and glorious in all aspects. Their art is full of macho-nationalism, and corresponds with the Personality of a Cult. Your 'acceptable level' is different to everyone else, that's a subjective argument.

It's important to respect that it is a developing nation. All western nations once had the problem of feeding all its people and many still do. It's also worth noting that the famines are usually caused by environmental problems such as flooding or draughts. Undoubtedly with Western wealth, North Korea could cultivate its land to its full potential and create a stockpile of food, but the same could be said for all other impoverished Asian nations. But they produce these academics and scientists, like you said. So why can't they use these scientists and academics to come up plans to prevent famine and future safe-guarding the land from environmental problems? Well, because the food is unevenly distributed. There is enough food, it is sustainable - the problem is the food is taken off the farmers and distributed by the state.

Western nations do struggle to feed some of the population, you are correct. But we don't actively hold the food against the people and distribute it ourselves. The market has done an okay job of it, albeit with problems. But the DPRK state has struggled to feed its people.

And in regards to wealth, the DPRK is not capitalist. Therefore, wealth is not a material or financial problem as they can just simply spring out these scientists and academics to solve their problems. Oh wait...

..and you are completely wrong about North Korea wanting destroy South Korea - absolute bullshit - in fact their ultimate goal is to reunify with the South and restore true Korean values, it's part of their Juche ideology. They have one main enemy, the USA - and who can blame them? Intimidation and propaganda has been continually coming from the USA since they lost the war. I am completely wrong? South Korea is a country, a concept of a nation. They want to destroy the concept of 'South Korea'. You're terrible at debate, infact, possibly the worst socialist I've ever had to discuss this with.

Juche Ideology is a mutated form of Maoism, an authoritarian ideology built on nationalism and isolationism. "http://www.stanford.edu/group/sjeaa/journal3/korea1.pdf - Establishing juche means, in a nutshell,
being the master of revolution and
reconstruction in one’s own country. This
means holding fast to an independent
position, rejecting dependence on others,
using one’s own brains, believing in
one’s own strength, displaying the
revolutionary spirit of self-reliance, and
thus solving one’s own problems for
oneself on one’s own responsibility under
all circumstances."

Except, the DPRK public cannot use their own brains, everything is done by the state. Perhaps you have no understanding of Juche itself, but a quick wikipedia page check to ensure some elements match your argument, it'll sound legit. But of course, this is just WESTERN PROPAGANDA, therefore not trust worthy at all. Which in that fallacious counter-argument, there's no point talking to you.

building an independent national
economy means building an economy
which is free from dependence on
others and which stands on its own feet,
an economy which serves one’s own
people and develops on the strength of
the resources of one’s own country

Again, the economy is dictated by a minority for the majority. Which is not exactly self-reliance etc etc.

North Korea just wants to be self-sufficient, and left alone - with its Korean values unaffected. It's all in their Juche ideology which I would recommend anyone to read more about for a better insight into their political mindset. The best thing the West could do is make peace with North Korea, accept its ways, and help it into prosperity. As the country gets richer, the people would have a greater power to revolt if that is what they wanted - but from what I know, the people are so proud of their nation and its values and fully subscribe to the Juche ideology to the extent that a majority of them would die for it - no exaggeration.

We should accept its brutal dictatorship and oppression, but cannot accept Western oppression?

f*** me, you wouldn't be a stranger in DPRK at all. They would die for it because they're brainwashed into thinking everyone is wrong but the dear leader. They have no freedom of thought, therefore have no other understanding of any other political system or ideology.

You sir, are a f*** wit.

 

[Twizzle]

N.Korea would never attack the US now that Dennis Rodman is top matey with retarded haircut boy.