Have we got North Korea all wrong?

[vegster]

I've recently read that Taiwan are developing a missile based on the old Sam systems (honest) in response to China's aggression. Should we expect them to be on sale in Wilkinsons and the Range sometime soon ?

A lot of the old Russki rockets still have the ability to do some damage, especially if you put something really nasty in the payload...... such as fermented seaweed

 

[Lawson]

Yes they are! America didn't win during their invasion last time, but they certainly wouldn't this time without the use of nuclear weapons. Remember, this is the most prepared country on the planet for war, to the extent that they have monthly nuclear bomb drills in Pyongyang!

The only reason there is a crisis at all is because America has been threatening it with invasion for 50 years, forcing it to heavily militarise itself rather than invest in its people. So the people are brainwashed, they have been all over the world throughout its history and arguably still are today, even in the West. If you think the reasons for this inane and obsessive determination to destroy the North Korean regime is for anything other than the interests of capitalism and the West's twisted idea of democracy to support that, you're kidding yourself. Almost every action, word and sanction the West has made in the last 50 years has made poverty far worse there. If there was a democratic vote in North Korea, the regime would win hands down. The majority of the people, brainwashed or not, passionately believe in the regime and perhaps not even education and awareness would change that, like you say. They don't want to change, they just want to be left alone and prosper - just by granting them that, it could solve this "crisis"

Jesus you do spout some absolute Rubbish. You clearly have never read anything about North Korea.

'They don't want to change, they just want to be left alone and prosper - just by granting them that, it could solve this "crisis"

what absolute bull they are the ones threatening other nations with extermination and it isn't due to threats on there existence, do remember they have China as a powerful ally who has protected her in the past. This means that America or South Korea could not invade, even if they wanted to, because it would have severe repercussions beyond the reach of tiny North Korea. South Korea have put out peace-feelers many times to North Korea however they Your discussion of events displays a clear lack of understanding of the history surrounding the Korean peninsular.

You do realize the cold war is over? it is the humanitarian conditions within North Korea that make intervention essential. Do remember if a state has to hide information from its people and forbid them from emigrating freely abroad then they are clearly not a nation that has popular support. Thousands of North Korean's attempt to flood out every year to China in hopes of making their way to South Korea that provides a far higher living standards without the presence of 'political crimes' hanging over them. The regime is exploitative, a threat to other nations, and guilty of abhorrent human rights abuses.

I really hope you are trying to wind people up everytime you come out with this uneducated rubbish just because i fear for society if there are individuals as stupid as you.

 

[Biscuit]

I really hope you are trying to wind people up everytime you come out with this uneducated rubbish just because i fear for society if there are individuals as stupid as you.

This.

It's going round in circles here, I'm out.

 

[Richard Tiltmans Shin Pad]

I mean,

nobody knows what goes on in there. Dennis Rodman just came out and said that the leader is a cool dude to hang with. So, do we have NK all wrong? Are the governments of the world spreading lies simply because they did not agree to peace with us?[/QU

You would LOVE it.........you would be told exactly what you could and couldn't do, lots of rules to follow and you can't stand up for anything........any other posts on any other threads I have missed? I think that covers the wet weekend of a thread 'my girlfriend won't let me...' and your views on standing at footy....Wazzock.

 

[Hove&Albion F.C]

Yes they are! America didn't win during their invasion last time, but they certainly wouldn't this time without the use of nuclear weapons. Remember, this is the most prepared country on the planet for war, to the extent that they have monthly nuclear bomb drills in Pyongyang!

The only reason there is a crisis at all is because America has been threatening it with invasion for 50 years, forcing it to heavily militarise itself rather than invest in its people. So the people are brainwashed, they have been all over the world throughout its history and arguably still are today, even in the West. If you think the reasons for this inane and obsessive determination to destroy the North Korean regime is for anything other than the interests of capitalism and the West's twisted idea of democracy to support that, you're kidding yourself. Almost every action, word and sanction the West has made in the last 50 years has made poverty far worse there. If there was a democratic vote in North Korea, the regime would win hands down. The majority of the people, brainwashed or not, passionately believe in the regime and perhaps not even education and awareness would change that, like you say. They don't want to change, they just want to be left alone and prosper - just by granting them that, it could solve this "crisis"

Do yourself a favour and read Real Lives in North Korea and watch Hyeonseo Lee's TED Talks. Having met and talked at length with a North Korean whilst living in China, I can categorically confirm that you are talking absolute bollocks, for the reasons others have already pointed out.

 

[Seagull kimchi]

Rodman is the biggest prick here

 

[Brightonfan1983]

We only know they are poor because our governments have told us they are poor.

We only know the moon isn't made out of cheese is because... oh

 

[father_and_son]

This is in extremely bad taste. Read the UN literature and the testimonies of people who have escaped and you wouldn't be so full of praise. Read 'Escape from camp 14' about a young man who was born in prison because of a crime his grandad committed - it's an eye opener.

Not saying you are wrong, but your version of the "truth" will be biased if you based it on testimony of people who, by definition, didn't like NK. If all you knew about the UK was from people who had emigrated, then you'd get a very bad opinion of it. If you only listened to everyone who chooses not to leave then you'd have a very different view. You must listen to both sides.
I reiterate that I'm not saying you're wrong, but your data source is inherently biased and therefore cannot be relied upon as anything other than biased information.

 

[Biscuit]

Not saying you are wrong, but your version of the "truth" will be biased if you based it on testimony of people who, by definition, didn't like NK. If all you knew about the UK was from people who had emigrated, then you'd get a very bad opinion of it. If you only listened to everyone who chooses not to leave then you'd have a very different view. You must listen to both sides.
I reiterate that I'm not saying you're wrong, but your data source is inherently biased and therefore cannot be relied upon as anything other than biased information.

Good post, but I'm not only basing my opinion on individual testimonies, but on reports from other Governing bodies, who do, I'm aware, have their own biases. But yes, your point stands, both sides should be looked at. If I were part of tiny percentage of upper class North Koreans, I imagine I'd get a completely different view of the country.

 

[Aseros]

Just received my copy of the new Lonely Planet Magazine, lovely article in there about North Korea, and it did highlight that the country isn't as bad as we all think.

 

[Aseros]

I find it strange that when governments make claims about affairs at home, people so often call "bullshit" - but all claims about other countries they take as gospel. Very odd double standards.

Indeed, and I don't know why people keep bringing up 'Amnesty International' as saying that human rights are bad, so they must be bad. This group isn't even allowed in North Korea, so again, spreading propoganda. Remember, Amnesty International is an organisation which relies on donations. The worse they make conditions seem, the more money they get and the more goes to the 'fat cats' in charge. To date, we have no hard conclusive evidence that the human rights in North Korea are anything short of ideal, sure, no contact with the outside world, but let's be honest, nobody knows what goes on in the country and it is unlikely that we ever will. So people need to stop making judgments based on 'hearsay'. Of course the people that leave North Korea aren't going to sing praise about it, half the people that leave England don't sing praises about our country.

 

[sten_super]

This is a cracking windup thread, very well done. I twigged [MENTION=7]Mustafa Kemal[/MENTION] at post 42, but [MENTION=19737]Aseros[/MENTION] had me all of the way until now.

 

[Bakero]

This is a cracking windup thread, very well done. I twigged [MENTION=7]Mustafa Kemal[/MENTION] at post 42, but [MENTION=19737]Aseros[/MENTION] had me all of the way until now.

I think you might be right about [MENTION=19737]Aseros[/MENTION] (the initial post seemed like a fishing trip) but I reckon [MENTION=7]Mustafa Kemal[/MENTION] is for real.

 

[sten_super]

I think you might be right about [MENTION=19737]Aseros[/MENTION] (the initial post seemed like a fishing trip) but I reckon [MENTION=7]Mustafa Kemal[/MENTION] is for real.

I know he has form, but surely this is a pisstake?

...and you are completely wrong about North Korea wanting destroy South Korea - absolute bullshit - in fact their ultimate goal is to reunify with the South and restore true Korean values, it's part of their Juche ideology.

North Korea just wants to be self-sufficient, and left alone - with its Korean values unaffected.

 

[father_and_son]

Good post, but I'm not only basing my opinion on individual testimonies, but on reports from other Governing bodies, who do, I'm aware, have their own biases. But yes, your point stands, both sides should be looked at. If I were part of tiny percentage of upper class North Koreans, I imagine I'd get a completely different view of the country.

Er... now I'm confused.... aren't we supposed to argue or something... I'm pretty sure there are forum rules about agreeing on a point in a civil manner!!

 

[father_and_son]

Indeed, and I don't know why people keep bringing up 'Amnesty International' as saying that human rights are bad, so they must be bad. This group isn't even allowed in North Korea, so again, spreading propoganda. Remember, Amnesty International is an organisation which relies on donations. The worse they make conditions seem, the more money they get and the more goes to the 'fat cats' in charge. To date, we have no hard conclusive evidence that the human rights in North Korea are anything short of ideal, sure, no contact with the outside world, but let's be honest, nobody knows what goes on in the country and it is unlikely that we ever will. So people need to stop making judgments based on 'hearsay'. Of course the people that leave North Korea aren't going to sing praise about it, half the people that leave England don't sing praises about our country.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that Amnesty International is actually one of the richest charities in the world and are sat on a huge cash surplus. My recollection might be wrong but it was the same article that stopped me donating regularly to RNLI because it revealed they had cash reserves of the order of £500 million.

 

[Bakero]

I know he has form, but surely this is a pisstake?

To be fair I think he's basically right here. The principles of Juche (the North Korean ideology) are (ostensibly) based around self reliance and Korean values. Reunification is the goal for the governments of the North and South, they just have very different ideas on the terms!

 

[sten_super]

To be fair I think he's basically right here. The principles of Juche (the North Korean ideology) are (ostensibly) based around self reliance and Korean values. Reunification is the goal for the governments of the North and South, they just have very different ideas on the terms!

Maybe I've misunderstood then - but if they want reunification with South Korea, but only on their own very exact terms, that i) doesn't seem very realistic and ii) doesn't really mean that they want to be 'left alone'. They effectively do want the destruction of South Korean culture, in order to replace it with their own, is that right?

 

[Bakero]

Maybe I've misunderstood then - but if they want reunification with South Korea, but only on their own very exact terms, that i) doesn't seem very realistic and ii) doesn't really mean that they want to be 'left alone'. They effectively do want the destruction of South Korean culture, in order to replace it with their own, is that right?

Actually, I think the North want reunification under a federal system with two autonomous governments. That way they could keep their system and the South would keep theirs (so yes, unrealistic). The preference in the South is for a unified democratic government.

 

[RedRob]

It's great.....i've got a 'holiday home' there!