England fans accused of racist chanting

[Seasider78]

'Try reading up on it'? Patronising beyond belief. I am very familiar with the case, and with the reasons why JT was found not guilty.

It was not possible for the court to absolutely prove that Terry had not thought he'd heard AF saying "Don't call me a ...", and so they had to find him not guilty. His 'reasons' for using this language, whilst almost universally seen as laughably ridiculous, could not be disproved. I cannot believe that you accept his stated reasons without question.

The FA saw through him, and so have most other people. His behaviour towards Anton Ferdinand was clearly racist. Get your head out of the sand.

He may be a racist who knows the fact is there is not evidence to support this view which is why a court was unable to prove this to be the case. You may be slightly more comfortable making your own decisions and judgements on you people you don't know based on your own interpretation of what was presented I am not.

 

[red star portslade]

It's pretty obvious that something happen after all the bad press Rio got from not playing. The media whore lives and dies by his public persona, he'll have had his team working overtime to get him some good press - Hay Presto Camel Face is racially abused by England fans.

How " Build a bonfire " is racist is beyond me.

The **** lost the " Race " moral high ground when he called Ashley Cole choc ice.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

He may be a racist who knows the fact is there is not evidence to support this view which is why a court was unable to prove this to be the case. You may be slightly more comfortable making your own decisions and judgements on you people you don't know based on your own interpretation of what was presented I am not.

Of course there's evidence to support this view. The CPS took the case to court on the basis of this evidence.

The court, with huge reservations from the judge, found him not guilty. The case could not be absolutely proved. The FA and most outside observers believed, like I did, that he'd 'got off'. So yeah, I'm quite comfortable in making my own decisions and judgements.

 

[coagulantwolf]

Does this not make Fare racist by making the connotation?

 

[Seasider78]

Of course there's evidence to support this view. The CPS took the case to court on the basis of this evidence.

The court, with huge reservations from the judge, found him not guilty. The case could not be absolutely proved. The FA and most outside observers believed, like I did, that he'd 'got off'. So yeah, I'm quite comfortable in making my own decisions and judgements.

The CPS taking something to court is not proof of guilt that is for the court to decide. The judge did not have huge reservations it was merely decided that their was insufficient evidence from both sides to decide one way or another.

You have your opinion I have mine nothing wrong with that I just feel the label of racist is a serious one and used far too casually

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

But they did not find him guilty of it either did they so did not agree with Ferdinands version of events either?

"Mr Riddle went on: "The prosecution evidence as to what was said by Mr Ferdinand at this point is not strong"


It does not matter what you or I think my point is we do not know John Terry or what really happened so you can't just casually label him a racist or do you think that is acceptable?

Were the FA being casual in labelling Terry a racist then? Terry could have taken them to the cleaners if this was the case. But no, he could not because the civil court uses the same burden of proof as the FA.

I have my view of John Terry which I feel is justified. Let's agree to differ.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The CPS taking something to court is not proof of guilt that is for the court to decide. The judge did not have huge reservations it was merely decided that their was insufficient evidence from both sides to decide one way or another.

You have your opinion I have mine nothing wrong with that I just feel the label of racist is a serious one and used far too casually

Were the FA being casual in labelling Terry a racist then? Terry could have taken them to the cleaners if this was the case. But no, he could not because the civil court uses the same burden of proof as the FA.

I have my view of John Terry which I feel is justified. Let's agree to differ.

HT has typed, almost word for word, what I would have done. So I don't need to.

 

[SussexHoop]

The report I read from someone who was there said it was 'Build a bonfire' and 'Rio Ferdinand you know what you are', the latter being the same chant sung by Scum fans at a Champions League game in the days following the John Terry incident. In that context I think it was racist.

It's a great shame Hodgson admitted he'd heard it but declined to comment further. Saying something could have sent a very strong message from an organisation that's made complaints about racism from fans of other countries but won't comment when it appears England fans abuse their own players.

 

[El Presidente]

Given that the Ferdinands' mother is white, perhaps it is targeting white people too?

Or it could be a slow news day?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Given that the Ferdinands' mother is white, perhaps it is targeting white people too?

Or it could be a slow news day?

Brilliant. So when mixed-race people are racially abused by white people, perhaps it's their white heritage that's being targeted?

Maybe you think that this is a trivial issue. But to 'prove' this with this sort of comment is taking playing devil's advocate too far in my opinion.

Very, very poor.

 

[Fitzcarraldo]

Brilliant. So when mixed-race people are racially abused by white people, perhaps it's their white heritage that's being targeted?

I'm sorry, you'll have to explain where he has been racially abused again?

As I see it they are brothers, brothers who aren't universally liked. So if you are going to sing "build a bonfire" about Rio it does make sense to fill the second name you need for the song with someone connected with him who isn't liked either. Like his brother. I can't see any racial abuse. But then again, i'm not a paid anti-racist like these people pushing the charges are.

 

[Soulman]

This is not racism it is a bunch of Chelsea fans hatred of two players one of whom just turned his back on an England call up the other involved in an accusation against their club captain that was later deemed by a court of law to be a misunderstanding.

My concern is there is genuine racism and homophobia that needs removing from the global game but it seems there are too many groups jumping on anything that can remotely label racism and is becoming a term banded about too casually for my liking.

Yep, good points.
I seem to remember that the two ex Palace players that were playing for Huddersfield took some stick at the Amex, they happened to be black, they were not slated because of their colour.
Strange how Ashley Cole and a few other black Chelsea players supported Terry as well, then Rio insulted Cole with his "choc ice" comments, because that is ok eh.
Suarez was also hung out to dry for his "Negrito" comment, suddenly the negrito word became part of the English language, even though in Uruguay that term is not offensive, in fact the past Uruguayan captain was known as El Negrito. Suarez has a black grandfather and even Glen Johnson and John Barnes publicly came out in his defence. Evra meanwhile admitted to (he even managed to insult in Spanish, not his native tongue, but Uraguayan) insulting Suarez.....but he got off scot free.
Of course there is racism, but as mentioned, let's pick on the genuine racism.
Terry gets stick because imo him and Suarez are not liked because of their character, so it is ok for them to get abused at every away match.
Anyway, for many of you that just use the card.....here is Suarez footage from before the Evra stitch up, when in the World Cup in SOUTH AFRICA when many players just played in the games, Suarez was out training and mixing with the local youngsters, who happen to be black.......i suppose many with an agenda will not take the time to look at this clip.
Luis Suarez: South Africa Documentary (2010) - YouTube

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I'm sorry, you'll have to explain where he has been racially abused again?

As I see it they are brothers, brothers who aren't universally liked. So if you are going to sing "build a bonfire" about Rio it does make sense to fill the second name you need for the song with someone connected with him who isn't liked either. Like his brother. I can't see any racial abuse. But then again, i'm not a paid anti-racist like these people pushing the charges are.

Why isn't Anton liked? Nobody cared about him until the John Terry incident. There lies the clue as to why this could be considered as racial abuse.

My point that you're answering here, however, is a more general response to El Presidente's fishing trip.

 

[Fitzcarraldo]

Why isn't Anton liked? Nobody cared about him until the John Terry incident. There lies the clue as to why this could be considered as racial abuse.

Because he was part of the Baby Bentley brigade when he was at West Ham. That didn't endear him and Nigel Reo Coker, et al, to anyone. But what does that matter as he's mixed race so not liking him must be racist. Oops, did I infer earlier in this post that I don't like Nigel Reo Coker either. I must be a racist too.

 

[jackanada]

If there is such a thing as a Spectrum of Racism then Suarez and Terry are at different ends of it.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Because he was part of the Baby Bentley brigade when he was at West Ham. That didn't endear him and Nigel Reo Coker et al to anyone. But what does that matter as he's mixed race so not liking him must be racist. Oops did I infer earlier in this post that I don't like Nigel Reo Coker either. I must be a racist too.

You've got a long memory, and the ability to hold a grudge...

The Baby Bentley brigade? Nice alliteration, but I have no idea what you are talking about.

And please don't deliberately misinterpret me. At no point have I said that disliking a particular black individual is racist. It is only racist when his colour is the issue.

 

[Soulman]

I can not stomach Gary Neville, luckily that is ok because he is white......phew.

 

[BigGully]

If there is such a thing as a Spectrum of Racism then Suarez and Terry are at different ends of it.

If you assume that Terry has more genuine black friends than you and I, is it likely he is a racist ?

He might be an oaf, I dont know, but I am wary when branding someone a racist.

I am NOT. but if I was followed and every word mentioned in jest or otherwise was offered for scrutiny to the general public and every text received funny or not was published, I wonder if any of us would pass the modern thresholds of what constitutes a racist.

 

[Fitzcarraldo]

You've got a long memory, and the ability to hold a grudge...

The Baby Bentley brigade? Nice alliteration, but I have no idea what you are talking about.

And please don't deliberately misinterpret me. At no point have I said that disliking a particular black individual is racist. It is only racist when his colour is the issue.

But that's the point. His colour isn't an issue. At no point were any racial slurs made. It is all inference and interpretation by people batting of reasons why people might dislike the Ferdinand brothers and just screaming RACISM. Whisper it quietly, but there are reasons people don't like the Ferdinand brothers beyond their skin colour.

Also, for what it's worth, the Baby Bentley brigade were a few over-payed ostentatious under-achievers at West Ham during the Curbishley era.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I can not stomach Gary Neville, luckily that is ok because he is white......phew.

Really? I like Gary Neville. He's like a breath of fresh air. Can't stand Mark Bright though.