England fans accused of racist chanting

[Deleted member 22389]

I

Still doesn't make it racist in any way, shape or form. This is about as tenuous link to racism as you can get.

They don't like two black people at the same time, they MUST be racist!

Welcome to the modern world - if you're going to dislike someone, you'd better make damn sure they have the same colour skin as you.

I agree, absolutely pathetic. This country has now officially gone mad. How can this be racist lol.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Welcome to the modern world - if you're going to dislike someone, you'd better make damn sure they have the same colour skin as you.

Okay, I hear you. In your case I should first check which skin colour you are then.

 

[red star portslade]

Don't see how build a bonfire is a racist chant

Thank God Guy Fawkes was white.

 

[piersa]

So, by that logic, when Brighton fans used it for Archer and Bellotti, were they racially abusing white people?

Exactly. It is ridiculous.

 

[Seasider78]

This is not racism it is a bunch of Chelsea fans hatred of two players one of whom just turned his back on an England call up the other involved in an accusation against their club captain that was later deemed by a court of law to be a misunderstanding.

My concern is there is genuine racism and homophobia that needs removing from the global game but it seems there are too many groups jumping on anything that can remotely label racism and is becoming a term banded about too casually for my liking.

 

[tgretton87]

Build a bonfire needs 2 names to work. And Anton does come across as a bit of a t**t as well as his brother!

 

[piersa]

well, I don't think so...speaking as an non-white English person with many white friends...

I travel all over Europe for business and I can say for sure that England is the the most non-racist country in Europe.

The racism card is produced far too easily and all too often. Has anybody thought that the Ferdinand brothers are just disliked? However, in the Black Lion in Brighton yesterday. My friend was with his daughter and her asian husband. A group of around 10 Englishmen in their mid 40's just started abusing him, calling him things like gook, slope, chink etc. That IS racist and it makes my stomach churn and makes me very angry. Interestingly, not one person stood up and said it was wrong. People talk the talk but they do not walk the walk.

 

[Ex-Staffs Gull]

This is why Eastern European countries get away with sickening racism. Because they are not the easy target these organisations look for. This was not racist, although I cannot state that any of the people chanting did not hold racist views.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I

Still doesn't make it racist in any way, shape or form. This is about as tenuous link to racism as you can get.

They don't like two black people at the same time, they MUST be racist!

Welcome to the modern world - if you're going to dislike someone, you'd better make damn sure they have the same colour skin as you.

I agree, absolutely pathetic. This country has now officially gone mad. How can this be racist lol.

There is no way that Anton would have been lumped into this if it wasn't for his 'disagreement' with John Terry. He was just a relative nobody, attracting no attention whatsoever.

Including him in the chant shows that those chanting have taken Terry's side. Terry's clear racism against him is being supported. How else can you explain why anyone would dislike Anton Ferdinand? He hasn't put his head above the parapet in any other way. Nobody specifically disliked him before this.

So yeah, hating AF is entirely related to support for a racist.

 

[piersa]

I

Still doesn't make it racist in any way, shape or form. This is about as tenuous link to racism as you can get.

They don't like two black people at the same time, they MUST be racist!

Welcome to the modern world - if you're going to dislike someone, you'd better make damn sure they have the same colour skin as you.

Absolutely on the ****ing noggin William.

 

[Seasider78]

There is no way that Anton would have been lumped into this if it wasn't for his 'disagreement' with John Terry. He was just a relative nobody, attracting no attention whatsoever.

Including him in the chant shows that those chanting have taken Terry's side. Terry's clear racism against him is being supported. How else can you explain why anyone would dislike Anton Ferdinand? He hasn't put his head above the parapet in any other way. Nobody specifically disliked him before this.

So yeah, hating AF is entirely related to support for a racist.

You do know a court of law cleared terry of racially abusing Ferdinand don't you?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

You do know a court of law cleared terry of racially abusing Ferdinand don't you?

Yes, I know that. He got off.

The FA found him guilty, banned him for four games and fined him £220,000. He didn't appeal, and finally apologised for his language and his behaviour.

You do know this, don't you?

 

[Bakero]

The racism card is produced far too easily and all too often. Has anybody thought that the Ferdinand brothers are just disliked? However, in the Black Lion in Brighton yesterday. My friend was with his daughter and her asian husband. A group of around 10 Englishmen in their mid 40's just started abusing him, calling him things like gook, slope, chink etc. That IS racist and it makes my stomach churn and makes me very angry. Interestingly, not one person stood up and said it was wrong. People talk the talk but they do not walk the walk.

That's terrible. I can't believe that nobody said anything to them. Years back, I was in a kebab shop and some girl told a friend of mine to go back to his own country. I then filled a polystyrene container with ketchup and threw it at her. Delicious vengeance.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You do know a court of law cleared terry of racially abusing Ferdinand don't you?

He was found not guilty because it could not be proved beyond reasonable doubt but it is pretty damn obvious he used racist language. Even the judge in his summing up said that Terry's explanation was highly unlikely and a very strange reply to Anton. Subsequently and on a lesser 'civil' burden of proof he was found guilty by the FA.

 

[Seasider78]

Yes, I know that. He got off.

The FA found him guilty, banned him for four games and fined him £220,000. He didn't appeal, and finally apologised for his language and his behaviour.

You do know this, don't you?

So you are questioning the courts decision or do the FA now supersede our justice system?

Try reading up on it he admitted using the language but was repeating what he believed Ferdinand had said. The court agreed and found him not guilty of racist abuse the FA charged him not for the context of the words he used or racially abusing Ferdinand but for using the words on the pitch. Terry did not dispute using the words and so took the fine and punishment.

Don't get me wrong I do not like John Terry but you can't simply label him a racist because you think he 'got off' even though a court of law presented with the facts disagrees with you.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The racism card is produced far too easily and all too often. Has anybody thought that the Ferdinand brothers are just disliked? However, in the Black Lion in Brighton yesterday. My friend was with his daughter and her asian husband. A group of around 10 Englishmen in their mid 40's just started abusing him, calling him things like gook, slope, chink etc. That IS racist and it makes my stomach churn and makes me very angry. Interestingly, not one person stood up and said it was wrong. People talk the talk but they do not walk the walk.

That is disgusting. It makes me sick to hear about neanderthal attitudes, and behaviour, like this.

I suspect that the reason that nobody stood up to them is because, as you say, it was a group of 10 Englishmen in their mid 40s. A group of 10! A group like this can be very intimidating, people will have been scared.

I would like to think that I'd have said something. Who can say, though, unless they're there?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

So you are questioning the courts decision or do the FA now supersede our justice system?

Try reading up on it he admitted using the language but was repeating what he believed Ferdinand had said. The court agreed and found him not guilty of racist abuse the FA charged him not for the context of the words he used or racially abusing Ferdinand but for using the words on the pitch. Terry did not dispute using the words and so took the fine and punishment.

Don't get me wrong I do not like John Terry but you can't simply label him a racist because you think he 'got off' even though a court of law presented with the facts disagrees with you.

The court did not agree with Terry's explanation. They found it highly unlikely. Read up on what the judge said. But because there was doubt he could not be found guilty.

 

[piersa]

That is disgusting. It makes me sick to hear about neanderthal attitudes, and behaviour, like this.

I suspect that the reason that nobody stood up to them is because, as you say, it was a group of 10 Englishmen in their mid 40s. A group of 10! A group like this can be very intimidating, people will have been scared.

I would like to think that I'd have said something. Who can say, though, unless they're there?

As would I, but as you rightly say, do not know unless you are there. Horrible horrible people around.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

So you are questioning the courts decision or do the FA now supersede our justice system?

Try reading up on it he admitted using the language but was repeating what he believed Ferdinand had said. The court agreed and found him not guilty of racist abuse the FA charged him not for the context of the words he used or racially abusing Ferdinand but for using the words on the pitch. Terry did not dispute using the words and so took the fine and punishment.

Don't get me wrong I do not like John Terry but you can't simply label him a racist because you think he 'got off' even though a court of law presented with the facts disagrees with you.

'Try reading up on it'? Patronising beyond belief. I am very familiar with the case, and with the reasons why JT was found not guilty.

It was not possible for the court to absolutely prove that Terry had not thought he'd heard AF saying "Don't call me a ...", and so they had to find him not guilty. His 'reasons' for using this language, whilst almost universally seen as laughably ridiculous, could not be disproved. I cannot believe that you accept his stated reasons without question.

The FA saw through him, and so have most other people. His behaviour towards Anton Ferdinand was clearly racist. Get your head out of the sand.

 

[Seasider78]

The court did not agree with Terry's explanation. They found it highly unlikely. Read up on what the judge said.

But they did not find him guilty of it either did they so did not agree with Ferdinands version of events either?

"Mr Riddle went on: "The prosecution evidence as to what was said by Mr Ferdinand at this point is not strong"


It does not matter what you or I think my point is we do not know John Terry or what really happened so you can't just casually label him a racist or do you think that is acceptable?