England fans accused of racist chanting

[Pogue Mahone]

But that's the point. His colour isn't an issue. At no point were any racial slurs made. It is all inference and interpretation by people batting of reasons why people might dislike the Ferdinand brothers and just screaming RACISM. Whisper it quietly, but there are reasons people don't like the Ferdinand brothers beyond their skin colour.

Also, for what it's worth, the Baby Bentley brigade were a few over-payed ostentatious under-achievers at West Ham during the Curbishley era.

I've never liked Rio Ferdinand. He sums up so much of what I hate about spoilt, overpaid, arrogant and over-indulged Premier League footballers. Pulling out of the England game last week, well that did nothing to enhance his popularity, and he could obviously have expected some abuse.

If Anton ferdinand had not been involved with John Terry then this Baby Bentley brigade that you talk about might have been how he was seen. But most people see him in relation to JT, and so England fans abusing him can easily and quite logically be seen as support for Terry, who we know racially abused him.

If there had not been an issue between JT and AF, I don't think that Anton would have been included in any chants at all.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

So, by that logic, when Brighton fans used it for Archer and Bellotti, were they racially abusing white people?

No , we were abusing 2 ****s of the highest magnitude.

 

[User removed 4]

That's terrible. I can't believe that nobody said anything to them. Years back, I was in a kebab shop and some girl told a friend of mine to go back to his own country. I then filled a polystyrene container with ketchup and threw it at her. Delicious vengeance.

How courageous , doing that to a girl , that must have taken some balls , lets see you do it to ten pissed upblokes .

 

[somerset]

How courageous , doing that to a girl , that must have taken some balls , lets see you do it to ten pissed upblokes .

What's the matter with you?... She gobbed off, he pitched a bit of ketchup her way,... a very restrained and appropriate response in my view..... he didn't slap her did he?.. although she deserved it.

 

[Fitzcarraldo]

I've never liked Rio Ferdinand. He sums up so much of what I hate about spoilt, overpaid, arrogant and over-indulged Premier League footballers. Pulling out of the England game last week, well that did nothing to enhance his popularity, and he could obviously have expected some abuse.

If Anton ferdinand had not been involved with John Terry then this Baby Bentley brigade that you talk about might have been how he was seen. But most people see him in relation to JT, and so England fans abusing him can easily and quite logically be seen as support for Terry, who we know racially abused him.

If there had not been an issue between JT and AF, I don't think that Anton would have been included in any chants at all.

I don't see why not. These are fans who have bothered to go to San Marino, it is safe to assume they are football people and therefore probably know that Anton Ferdinand is a prime example of what you call "spoilt, overpaid, arrogant and over-indulged Premier League footballers". The Baby Bentley brigade episode emphasises this. Also the JT AF affair has raised his profile, so he is well known. Why would he not be included in the chant? He is a brother of Rio Ferdinand and the chant requires two names.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I don't see why not. These are fans who have bothered to go to San Marino, it is safe to assume they are football people and therefore probably know that Anton Ferdinand is a prime example of what you call "spoilt, overpaid, arrogant and over-indulged Premier League footballers". The Baby Bentley brigade episode emphasises this. Also the JT AF affair has raised his profile, so he is well known. Why would he not be included in the chant? He is a brother of Rio Ferdinand and the chant requires two names.

Well, it's possible.

But if I was in an England crowd, and they started singing derogatory stuff about Anton Ferdinand, the link to the John Terry affair would make me very uncomfortable. I find it hard to believe that the link was not made by a large amount of those singing, and that it might be seen as support for Terry's racism. Yes, they're brothers, but it doesn't take much imagination to see how singing against Anton Ferdinand might be viewed, considering recent history.

But still it was sung with volume and enthusiasm.

 

[Fitzcarraldo]

I think we'll have to agree to disagree. Besides, if you were really looking for racism surely singing "you know what you are", as was reported, constitutes racial abuse far more than a tenuous link with his brother.

 

[drew]

There is no way that Anton would have been lumped into this if it wasn't for his 'disagreement' with John Terry. He was just a relative nobody, attracting no attention whatsoever.

Including him in the chant shows that those chanting have taken Terry's side. Terry's clear racism against him is being supported. How else can you explain why anyone would dislike Anton Ferdinand? He hasn't put his head above the parapet in any other way. Nobody specifically disliked him before this.

So yeah, hating AF is entirely related to support for a racist.

I think it's too simplistic to decide that because they appear to take JT side, they instantly become racists. For me, the underlying feeling if probably that of betrayal of the national team. Rio because of his personal fitness regime precluded him from even playing one game for England and more tenuously, that the issues between JT and AF affected the national team.

Furthermore, historically, in this country build a bonfire relates to Guy Fawkes and not, as in the USA, the lynching of blacks. In other words, it relates to traitors rather than racists. Ask anyone in this country what Bonfire Night is all about and they will either say Guy Fawkes and the gunpowder plot or they won't know. No one will suggest it relates to a civil rights movement in the US!

And finally, as mentioned by others, why wasn't Joleon Lescott, Ashley Cole, Glenn Johnson, Chris Smalling, Ashley Young and Danny Welbeck targetted? Why, because they weren't percieved to have betrayed the team (apart of course from not keeping possession in the second half!).

So you are questioning the courts decision or do the FA now supersede our justice system?

Try reading up on it he admitted using the language but was repeating what he believed Ferdinand had said. The court agreed and found him not guilty of racist abuse the FA charged him not for the context of the words he used or racially abusing Ferdinand but for using the words on the pitch. Terry did not dispute using the words and so took the fine and punishment.

Don't get me wrong I do not like John Terry but you can't simply label him a racist because you think he 'got off' even though a court of law presented with the facts disagrees with you.

But surely you are aware the burden of proof in a criminal court is far greater than that in a civil court but in the latter you can still be labelled a racist as a result of losing a civil case.

He may be a racist who knows the fact is there is not evidence to support this view which is why a court was unable to prove this to be the case. You may be slightly more comfortable making your own decisions and judgements on you people you don't know based on your own interpretation of what was presented I am not.

As above!

 

[cunning fergus]

This kind of navel gazing on the events in San Marino by the powers that be, the media and the well intentioned (incl. posters on here) does nothing to eradicate racism, it has the opposite effect and diminishes the impact when instances of genuine discrimination occur.

The effect will be exactly the same as the Abu Qatada affair is having on the public perception on the validity of the human rights act and associated legislation..........the problem is that there are way too many people who have invested their livelihoods, political egos, and public image into these issues, it is not in their interests to say the war is over.

It will never be over.............ignorance is strength, war is peace, freedom is slavery.

 

[albionalex]

Media are just trying to create a storm in my opinion. Massive overreaction. As can be seen in this article by Oliver Holt: England: Why sickening chants against Rio Ferdinand show race hate is still part of our game - Oliver Holt - Mirror Online

"Let’s be blunt about this: groups of white men singing about burning two black men on a bonfire is repulsive. There are echoes of the Deep South that conjure images of lynchings."

Errrm, no. What about black Brighton fans that have sung about burning Archer and Belotti? They aren't being racist, they just hate them! Chelsea fans hate Anton because they believe he lied about John Terry (who was cleared in court, not that it matters) and most fans hate Rio because they believe he turned down the chance to play for England. If say, for example, both Ferdinand and Rooney had said they couldn't play in the games and the song had been sung, would that have been racist?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Because he was part of the Baby Bentley brigade when he was at West Ham. That didn't endear him and Nigel Reo Coker, et al, to anyone.

Do you seriously believe what you have written? This is pretty desperate clutching at straws.

 

[Bakero]

What's the matter with you?... She gobbed off, he pitched a bit of ketchup her way,... a very restrained and appropriate response in my view..... he didn't slap her did he?.. although she deserved it.

Cheers, Somerset. I think most would agree it was a very measured response.

How courageous , doing that to a girl , that must have taken some balls , lets see you do it to ten pissed upblokes .

For what it's worth, Bushy, she was with a group of lads. A few of them started mouthing off and got a lot more than a bit of ketchup.

 

[The Wizard]

This whole thing is utter stupid. There were no racially motivated chants made at all, I am struggling to believe this is even an actual news story. I'm guessing the England fans sung that song about the Ferdinand/s because Rio would prefer to go on his holiday to Dubai than to play for his national team, what a complete non story. Trust the PC brigade in this day and age to ASSUME its racially motivated. It has to be right because they are singing it about half-cast players? What a pile of tosh. If only Diana were here

I've never seen the press so CLUELESS, are they really THAT thick? 'Racial hate mobs' from the Mirror

 

[Nibble]

Throwing ketchup on a person. What an incredibly odd and rather pathetic thing to do. Just an odd, odd way for an adult to behave.

 

[Nibble]

Cheers, Somerset. I think most would agree it was a very measured response.



For what it's worth, Bushy, she was with a group of lads. A few of them started mouthing off and got a lot more than a bit of ketchup.

To quote Karl Pilkington...BULLSHIT.

 

[User removed 4]

Cheers, Somerset. I think most would agree it was a very measured response.



For what it's worth, Bushy, she was with a group of lads. A few of them started mouthing off and got a lot more than a bit of ketchup.

Course she was , course they did .

 

[Soulman]

This whole thing is utter stupid. There were no racially motivated chants made at all, I am struggling to believe this is even an actual news story. I'm guessing the England fans sung that song about the Ferdinand/s because Rio would prefer to go on his holiday to Dubai than to play for his national team, what a complete non story. Trust the PC brigade in this day and age to ASSUME its racially motivated. It has to be right because they are singing it about half-cast players? What a pile of tosh. If only Diana were here

I've never seen the press so CLUELESS, are they really THAT thick? 'Racial hate mobs' from the Mirror

Meanwhile, while this non story is causing a fuss.
A controversial Muslim cleric will not face action despite telling his followers to claim benefits and saying David Cameron should be killed.

Telling fellow fanatics to claim 'jihad seeker's allowance', Anjem Choudary, who in the past has planned to disrupt the minute's silence on Remembrance Sunday, also openly mocked hard-working Britons, calling them 'slaves'.

The Sun newspaper secretly filmed him saying Islam will overrun Europe, David Cameron and Barack Obama should be killed, and called the Queen 'ugly'.

The newspaper gave its evidence to the authorities, but Thames Valley Police today said: 'The material fell below an evidential threshold to pursue a criminal case against him.'

After the incident, Choudary said he had been 'joking' and his words had been misconstrued. He also maintained that Osama Bin Laden was his 'hero'.

The father-of-four takes home more than £25,000 a year in benefits and lives in a £320,000 house in Leytonstone, East London.

He told a crowd of around 30 fanatics: 'People will say, "Ah, but you are not working". But the normal situation is for you to take money from the kuffar (non-Muslim).

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Throwing ketchup on a person. What an incredibly odd and rather pathetic thing to do. Just an odd, odd way for an adult to behave.

Happens all the time in Tarrentino movies

 

[Nibble]

Happens all the time in Tarrentino movies

Haha! That's because Tarantino makes movies for 14 year old boys with bloodlust and ******* issues.

 

[Bakero]

Course she was , course they did .

You don't know me, Bushy. If you did, you wouldn't doubt me.