[Albion] Dunk - straight red?

[kevo]

The VAR Review: Why Man United were awarded a penalty, and was Alisson really fouled?

The lowdown on Man United's VAR penalty against Everton, plus Manchester City's disallowed goal against Liverpool.

www.espn.com

”Mr VAR” aka Dale Johnson thinks VAR were wrong to intervene.
If the independent panel comes to the same conclusion, it would be the fourth incorrect VAR decision to go against Brighton this season.

No surprise there. How many did we have against us last season?

 

[Bodian]

Inforces the fact that so many overeseas players soon pick up on English expletives !

I was just thinking that on Saturday. Dunk needs to learn some Spanish or something.

 

[Mellotron]

Then we have a problem if ”oh fcuk off Ref” going to be a red card dissent - you’d end up with less than 7 players on at least one of the teams and the match would have to be abandoned. I think were are long past the time when ‘fcuk off ref’ was a straight red card offence - a yellow yes, or verbal warning but not a sending off (FFS )

My point is that for some reason screaming f*** off is apparently fine. It shouldn’t be. It’s never even a yellow.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

Mark my words because ifs it's not been said before with both Match officials and Var pulling in different directions and football where passions can run high it's only a question of time before a match official is seriously assaulted.

 

[Zeberdi]

My point is that for some reason screaming f*** off is apparently fine. It shouldn’t be. It’s never even a yellow.

So now it’s ‘screaming‘ fcuk off!? It was just ‘shouting’ ‘fcuk off‘ the post I was responding to. ‘Screaming’ suggests some who has completely lost control and I can’t remember the last time I heard a professional football player even shouting ‘fcuk off’ at the top of his voice directly at a ref let alone one who was screaming.

And no, I didn’t say it was ‘fine’ but in the context of foul play, as an OFFINABUS offence, you’d be hard pushed to get even a ‘shout’ of ‘fcuk off’ as a straight red card unless it was directly in the face of a ref and a deliberate refusal to accept his word - if we start applying that swear word as a bar for what words constitute abuse per se, we’d have a lot of players going off the pitch. Rules may be desirable but they also need to be enforceable in a way that doesn’t destroy the game by becoming to draconian.

A warning about using swear words and then a yellow card after that should suffice imo - if that is still ignored then another yellow (or a 2 yellow offences red card ) or a straight red card after that depending on whether you think efforts to get them to check their language is simply falling of deaf ears..

I don’t know what Dunky said on Saturday but I bet it was a darn-sight worse than ‘fcuk off’ when VAR ruled in a pen.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

I agree with this also. The replays on my large TV were from too great a distance and blurry. Taylor had the same distant shot to review on a small monitor.

Hinshelwood may well have fouled him, but it's not clear he did. It's equally possible that the striker wrapped his arm around Hinshelwood and took an opportunistic tumble in the way penalty-seekers do.

So, with it not being definitive, I'm not sure how the penalty could be given retrospectively.

It was a shocking decision. So inconclusive it should never been seen as clear and obvious.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Yawn..............................................................

Oh dear. I’m devastated.

 

[Wardy's twin]

It's Gerry Cottle's Circus (clown section)

I know but I wondered who was responsible for it. I assume the FA are if so they are delivering an inferior product.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Is it not OK to at least question what we are seeing? Its not as if its a direct accusation of corruption, but suggesting it as one of several possibilities in the abstract shouldn't be libellous? Its not as if referee corruption is some hypothetical, there have been numerous cases around the world. There was the Calciopoli scandal in Italy during 2004-06 which led to Juventus being stripped of their league title and relegated; there was the German match-fixing scandal at the same time which led to several referees being banned for life, there have been World Cup referees banned for match-fixing and Barcelona have recently been charged with bribing the head of the Spanish referees association.

Whether or not any of us believe this is actually happening in the Premier League, nor know what form this might take, it would be naive to dismiss it out of hand.

Perhaps it would be better that it was phrased better.

After the Spurs game last year I questioned the integrity of officials in the EPL.

It would be good if there is a far more open book with PGMOL. https://www.starlizardintegrity.com/ could help.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

According to the BBC Neal Maupay was given a red card for abusive language to a Ref after a game with Wolves in 2021.

They are also now referring to Dunk's offence as a "Jibe"

 

[Worried Man Blues]

Well at least he will have learned his lesson and it won't happen again.

 

[Seagull58]

So now it’s ‘screaming‘ fcuk off!? It was just ‘shouting’ ‘fcuk off‘ the post I was responding to. ‘Screaming’ suggests some who has completely lost control and I can’t remember the last time I heard a professional football player even shouting ‘fcuk off’ at the top of his voice directly at a ref let alone one who was screaming.

And no, I didn’t say it was ‘fine’ but in the context of foul play, as an OFFINABUS offence, you’d be hard pushed to get even a ‘shout’ of ‘fcuk off’ as a straight red card unless it was directly in the face of a ref and a deliberate refusal to accept his word - if we start applying that swear word as a bar for what words constitute abuse per se, we’d have a lot of players going off the pitch. Rules may be desirable but they also need to be enforceable in a way that doesn’t destroy the game by becoming to draconian.

A warning about using swear words and then a yellow card after that should suffice imo - if that is still ignored then another yellow (or a 2 yellow offences red card ) or a straight red card after that depending on whether you think efforts to get them to check their language is simply falling of deaf ears..

I don’t know what Dunky said on Saturday but I bet it was a darn-sight worse than ‘fcuk off’ when VAR ruled in a pen.

"Bald prick" according to amateur lipreaders. There may have been a "bellend" involved somewhere in the discussion too.

 

[Seagull58]

According to the BBC Neal Maupay was given a red card for abusive language to a Ref after a game with Wolves in 2021.

They are also now referring to Dunk's offence as a "Jibe"

Maupay's was after the final whistle.

 

[Seagull58]

Perhaps it would be better that it was phrased better.

After the Spurs game last year I questioned the integrity of officials in the EPL.

It would be good if there is a far more open book with PGMOL. https://www.starlizardintegrity.com/ could help.

Starlizard Integrity has contracts with La Liga and several other leagues but not the EPL. Maybe another algorithm-driven integrity business is working with the EPL but I suspect not because, well, it's the EPL.

 

[Seagull58]

My daughter picked up a stone on the walk to school this morning and threw it at a lampost to make a noise. I told her off. However, her first response was "but I've seen other parents let their children do it". I told her I didn't care what other parents said and it wasn't the right thing to do. She then called me corrupt and told me Alan Smith or Lee Cattermole was the last child to be told off for throwing a stone at that lampost, which I thought was an amazing reference seeing as she's five.

and if her first response was" I have done this many times before when walking to school with and you have never told me off, so why are you only doing it this one time? Are you a bald prick in disguise"?

 

[Seagull58]

It looks rules have been tightened.

The point is abusive language has to have zero tolerance where refs are concerned.

We've seen the problem at grassroots level. So the highest level has to set an example. If it doesn't, then there won't be any referees left.

It looks like the rule has been arbitrarily tightened by Taylor on a one-off basis, because it wasn't tightened in the Everton or Villa matches this weekend.. If PGMOL or IFAB is going to change the accepted standard for punishing foul and abusive language (after 15 years of precedence where they ignored it) then, as with their changes to offside and their short-lived crackdown on delaying free-kicks, they should announce it publicly and enforce it rigorously.

 

[Zeberdi]

"Bald prick" according to amateur lipreaders. There may have been a "bellend" involved somewhere in the discussion too.

Not sure I should be making any comment on what ‘amateur lip readers’ say he said but if true I would think that constitutes personal abusive remarks directed at the ref which is completely unacceptable imo and deserved an instant sending off.

Is this a subjective thing? I happen to think ‘fcuk off!’ is far less offensive than calling someone something that reflects a characteristic of their physical appearance or a private body part - that’s a big ‘NO’ for me but I am a little embarrassed to say in front of any snowflakes that might be hovering around here, ‘oh FCUK!‘ is my go to when something bad happens ( from spilling a cup of coffee to accidentally deleting something on the computer) - ‘Oh fcuk off’ is what I say to mates sometimes in a joking way - I scream ‘FCUK OFF!! ‘ at customer service chatbots that have me going round in circles or when going through endless options to speak to the right department on the phone - I say ‘fcuk’ far too often

(‘Bellend’ doesn’t bother me either)

 

[American Seagle]

Perhaps it would be better that it was phrased better.

After the Spurs game last year I questioned the integrity of officials in the EPL.

It would be good if there is a far more open book with PGMOL. https://www.starlizardintegrity.com/ could help.

Hopefully it is happening even as a precaution. Given the amount of previous soccer has in terms of match fixing it would be a good idea to do. Just like having a smoke alarm or CO alarm. It doesn't mean the house is on fire, but it gives you an early warning IF something bad happens and you can correct it before it gets too bad. It also acts as a deterrent.

 

[dazzer6666]

Not sure I should be making any comment on what ‘amateur lip readers’ say he said but if true I would think that constitutes personal abusive remarks directed at the ref which is completely unacceptable imo and deserved an instant sending off.

Is this a subjective thing? I happen to think ‘fcuk off!’ is far less offensive than calling someone something that reflects a characteristic of their physical appearance or a private body part - that’s a big ‘NO’ for me but I am a little embarrassed to say in front of any snowflakes that might be hovering around here, ‘oh FCUK!‘ is my go to when something bad happens ( from spilling a cup of coffee to accidentally deleting something on the computer) - ‘Oh fcuk off’ is what I say to mates sometimes in a joking way - I scream ‘FCUK OFF!! ‘ at customer service chatbots that have me going round in circles or when going through endless options to speak to the right department on the phone - I say ‘fcuk’ far too often

(‘Bellend’ doesn’t bother me either)

Think this is it, whatever was said. A non-directed ‘FFS’ as you walk away or similar is very common, but actually directing a personal (abusive) comment at the ref much less so.

I got hit on the ankle by a daft old bint pushing a shopping trolley in the supermarket. It hurt like hell for a few seconds and I let out a ‘f*** !’……she then got all arsey, called her old man over and accused me of swearing at her. I explained I was swearing at the pain….if I’d said what I was thinking (‘watch where you’re going you ******* stupid ****’) then she’d maybe have had a legit complaint.

Dunk appears to have ‘personalised’ his anger……so can’t have too many complaints really.

 

[Seagull58]

Not sure I should be making any comment on what ‘amateur lip readers’ say he said but if true I would think that constitutes personal abusive remarks directed at the ref which is completely unacceptable imo and deserved an instant sending off.

Is this a subjective thing? I happen to think ‘fcuk off!’ is far less offensive than calling someone something that reflects a characteristic of their physical appearance or a private body part - that’s a big ‘NO’ for me but I am a little embarrassed to say in front of any snowflakes that might be hovering around here, ‘oh FCUK!‘ is my go to when something bad happens ( from spilling a cup of coffee to accidentally deleting something on the computer) - ‘Oh fcuk off’ is what I say to mates sometimes in a joking way - I scream ‘FCUK OFF!! ‘ at customer service chatbots that have me going round in circles or when going through endless options to speak to the right department on the phone - I say ‘fcuk’ far too often

(‘Bellend’ doesn’t bother me either)

Most of the discussion on this thread is about the (lack of) consistency. Using foul or abusive language directly to a ref is a red card offence. Fine, no problem. If what Dunk said is foul and abusive language then the red card is justified. Apply the rule consistently. I absolutely refuse to accept that only one player in the EPL has used foul and sbusive language towards a referee during a match in the last 15 years.
IMO, shouting "fcuk off, ref" directly in his face constitutes foul and abusive language and warrants a red card. I'm not sure that shouting "oh fcuk off" in his general direction or into the ether does. It is the opinion of PGMOL and IFAB that matters though. Set the standard and enforce it consistently.