David has only gone and done it!

[Kalimantan Gull]

Why can we not control it if we know what skills or unskilled we are looking for, this is known as CONTROLLED immigration which whilst not having control over our borders seems harder to do.

Of course immigration from non-EU citizens needs tackling but you seem obsessed by the figures and bring them up whenever EU immigration is mentioned. This is about the EU and sorting this in or out issue, the non-EU citizens is a different problem.

As we discussed on the other thread, we're getting mostly unskilled because we need mostly unskilled. British people tend to be qualified and skilled and not applying for these jobs, including poorly-paid public sector work.

You argue we can control it, but the workplace economy tends to be self-controlling. All the Irish and Dutch and Poles and others who come to the UK are here for work, if there is no work they by-and-large go home. My point is that a "controlled" immigration policy is unlikely to look much different to the current one in terms of number of people in the country.

There are large parts of our immigration policy that we can control, but seem quite happy to continue bringing workers in, we gave 171,000 working visas in the year to March 2015. If we were flooded with immigrants from the EU why do we need to give work visas to non-EU residents? They're not all skilled, we give 26,000 working visas to Australians each year, a large number for people working in bars and restaurants. The stats show that 102,000 of the 171,000 working visas are for skilled or highly-skilled people, so the remainder are well, not, and yet we still apparently need them despite the open borders in the EU

You seem to be repeatedly missing Kalimantan Gull's point.

My point Mr Soulman, is that we have unlimited immigration from the EU, a lot of asylum seekers from Syria and elsewhere, family members of 1st generation immigrants coming over, and we still cannot fill all the jobs in Britain - to the degree that we bring in another 170,000 people on work permits.

My point therefore is that controlling or not controlling EU immigration will have next-to-no effect on the number of immigrants in Britain.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

My point Mr Soulman, is that we have unlimited immigration from the EU, a lot of asylum seekers from Syria and elsewhere, family members of 1st generation immigrants coming over, and we still cannot fill all the jobs in Britain - to the degree that we bring in another 170,000 people on work permits.

My point therefore is that controlling or not controlling EU immigration will have next-to-no effect on the number of immigrants in Britain.

Really? .... I would think shutting off automatic access to our job market for hundreds of thousands of people would initially reduce immigration.

There are always large numbers of vacancies perhaps not having free access to cheap labour might encourage the government to train and prioritise the 1.7 million UK unemployed. And force more employers to pay decent wages.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Exactly, so the change will not be implemented until full approval....ie the referendum.

Yes, until full approval - i.e. by all stakeholders - all 28 parliaments.

 

[topbanana36]

What a superb deal, do me a favour NO control of our borders, no sovereignty and no control of who we trade with. Cameron is a traitor!!!

 

[Ernest]

What a superb deal, do me a favour NO control of our borders, no sovereignty and no control of who we trade with. Cameron is a traitor!!!

And not a shred of what Cameron promised it would be in the Tory manifesto

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Really? .... I would think shutting off automatic access to our job market for hundreds of thousands of people would initially reduce immigration.

There are always large numbers of vacancies perhaps not having free access to cheap labour might encourage the government to train and prioritise the 1.7 million UK unemployed. And force more employers to pay decent wages.

Well thats a different issue. But again, why give 170,000 working visas when you could be training the unemployed?

 

[sir albion]

My point Mr Soulman, is that we have unlimited immigration from the EU, a lot of asylum seekers from Syria and elsewhere, family members of 1st generation immigrants coming over, and we still cannot fill all the jobs in Britain - to the degree that we bring in another 170,000 people on work permits.

My point therefore is that controlling or not controlling EU immigration will have next-to-no effect on the number of immigrants in Britain.

Well we have plenty of unemployed people north of the border,but we don't have the homes in the south and it's not affordable.
Guess migrants are happy to live with 8/10/30 in a house unlike the Brits.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

Super Dave 'The Iron man'.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

p.s. Are you on first name terms with Goldstone?

Don't think so . . . .

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Well thats a different issue. But again, why give 170,000 working visas when you could be training the unemployed?

I would think we will always be granting work visas in any situation low/high employment for numerous reasons. (Specialist skills, International companies transferring staff) .170,000 is hardly significant when compared with the 2 million plus foreign born workers in the UK. Reducing this overall figure by stopping mass EU migration would be far more likely to benefit the unemployed across a range of jobs especially low skilled or entry level jobs.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Of course I don't want foreigners near me ... and I'm man enough to admit it..

I'm sorry to hear that. Did a nasty black man frighten you when you were small?

 

[Hampster Gull]

And not a shred of what Cameron promised it would be in the Tory manifesto

Not true. From an OPen Europe article last year qouting the manifesto

EU Immigration reform (an absolute requirement):
As expected David Cameron has stuck to his policies announced in his main migration speech. He will stop short of a cap or brake on EU migration seeking instead to tackle the issue of access to welfare. The manifesto states “Changes to welfare to cut EU migration will be an absolute requirement in the renegotiation.” The main policy (based on Open Europe‘s research and proposals) is that “We will insist that EU migrants who want to claim tax credits and child benefit must live here and contribute to our country for a minimum of four years.”

“We want to see powers flowing away from Brussels”
The manifesto states that the Conservatives wish to change the direction of travel in the EU and that they “want to see powers flowing away from Brussels” and end “ever closer union”. This is a broad statement but there is no detail as to what these powers would be and, given we already have a ‘Referendum lock’ on the transfer of more powers to the EU, what an end to “ever closer union” would entail beyond the removal of some symbolic wording.

Safeguards for Non-Eurozone states
As well as reiterating the pledge of not joining the Euro, the manifesto states that it will be an aim to protect the rights of states that have not joined the Euro. There is no further detail on this but the danger of Eurozone caucusing is something Open Europe has pointed out on a number of occasions. Interestingly the need to safeguard the rights on Euro outs is also featured in the Labour party manifesto – making this a point of cross-party agreement.

Etc etc

 

[vegster]

There's going to be some cracking binfests in the next 4 months....marvellous scenes

 

[melias shoes]

There's going to be some cracking binfests in the next 4 months....marvellous scenes

Already started veggie. I love it.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Much as I despise the party and principles that David Cameron stands for, I do have to grudgingly admire his seemingly unlimited levels of stamina. I mean, who could be arsed to remember the NAMES of all 28 EU member nation leaders, let alone having to actually CONVERSE with each of them and attempt to turn them towards your point of view? Helluva task ask IMHO.

 

[Deleted User X18H]

The day before Brighton & Hove Albion's 115th birthday

 

[glasfryn]

Much as I despise the party and principles that David Cameron stands for, I do have to grudgingly admire his seemingly unlimited levels of stamina. I mean, who could be arsed to remember the NAMES of all 28 EU member nation leaders, let alone having to actually CONVERSE with each of them and attempt to turn them towards your point of view? Helluva task ask IMHO.

he won't have to worry about it soon enough

 

[Buzzer]

[tweet]700981680476188673[/tweet]

Francois Hollande on Cameron's EU negotiations: "Just because it lasted a long time doesn't mean that much happened." Actual quote.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Much as I despise the party and principles that David Cameron stands for, I do have to grudgingly admire his seemingly unlimited levels of stamina. I mean, who could be arsed to remember the NAMES of all 28 EU member nation leaders, let alone having to actually CONVERSE with each of them and attempt to turn them towards your point of view? Helluva task ask IMHO.

Yes, almost Thatcherite in the result

 

[Hampster Gull]

[tweet]700981680476188673[/tweet]

Francois Hollande on Cameron's EU negotiations: "Just because it lasted a long time doesn't mean that much happened." Actual quote.

Yes, every PM or equivalent has a home nation to appease, including our own Leader DC