[Football] Coincidental (?) Potterish Things

[Beanstalk]

So why did Brighton score a lot of goals with GP in charge of the current squad but not a lot of goals with previous squads if it was all down to coaching and not down to the quality of Maupay, Connolly, Ali J etc?

What on earth are you talking about?

In our three seasons under Potter we scored 39 goals, 40 goals and 42 goals. That's 1.06 per game and a consistent record across three seasons, including last season with basically the current squad.

This season, we scored 11 in 6 under Potter (including an anomalous result of 5 in one game). If you excuse the Leicester result as extraordinary then we scored at 1.2 gpg this season under Potter. We've scored 21 in 11 under De Zerbi at 1.9 gpg - even with the Leicester game included that is an improvement. We, with the same squad are scoring more goals. That is undeniable.

Potter is a fine manager, and did a lot of truly wonderful work at Brighton that he should be applauded for. He also struggled to coach a team to score lots of goals, playing his style of football.

 

[Swansman]

What on earth are you talking about?

In our three seasons under Potter we scored 39 goals, 40 goals and 42 goals. That's 1.06 per game and a consistent record across three seasons, including last season with basically the current squad.

This season, we scored 11 in 6 under Potter (including an anomalous result of 5 in one game). If you excuse the Leicester result as extraordinary then we scored at 1.2 gpg this season under Potter. We've scored 21 in 11 under De Zerbi at 1.9 gpg - even with the Leicester game included that is an improvement. We, with the same squad are scoring more goals. That is undeniable.

Potter is a fine manager, and did a lot of truly wonderful work at Brighton that he should be applauded for. He also struggled to coach a team to score lots of goals, playing his style of football.

Since the emergence of Caicedo and inefficient players like Maupay and Moder dropping out of the starting eleven for various reasons, Brighton scored a good number of goals in the spring and the start of this season. While it is indeed true that the team has scored more goals with RDZ, it is difficult to tell if that would really be any different if GP was in charge against suicidal Wolves, Southampton and Everton.

 

[Stat Brother]

It's hard to imagine GPott being unhappy at halftime 1-0 away from home, demanding his team get on the front foot.

 

[Bold Seagull]

This guy seems reasonable by Shed End standards (and not very impressed).

Graham Potter (Now Sacked ) - *Official* New (Now Old) Chelsea Manager

www.theshedend.com

But of course a thread pointing out that they're not scoring, that their fans also shout shoot in a frustrated manner and that they may not be preparing well (with question marks in title and post) is the real issue

Has someone hacked this account, can someone check?

 

[TottonSeagull]

Chelsea are suffering the Potter effect of pretty but ineffective football. Under GP we would constantly draw games and he couldn't work out how to make us score for the majority of his tenure. He is a decent coach but no where near the genius that some thought on here! He is now another manager that used to manage us and no more!

 

[BN41Albion]

I guess this is the thing. It was shaping up after a promising but often frustrating progression (lots of long runs of poor form especially at home) but he jumped ship before delivering on it. The whole point of progression is that you take the good and the bad with the understanding that the bad gets smaller and smaller - that moment of clarity on the process was going to be this season but he walked.

I think RDZ has highlighted that some of the accepted flaws (lack of goals) were down to coaching/playing style issues rather than a lack of quality in the squad as the media would often tell us. Those issues are now rearing their head at Chelsea whilst our squad are scoring for fun. Haaland has more goals than Chelsea this season - 12 goals in 11 games so far under Potter.

But we had started scoring a lot more under GP before he left (granted not as much as we are currently under RDZ, but enough for folk to be very enthusiastic about the season ahead), and from across the pitch. And Chelsea hadn't been scoring before GP arrived, either. So it's not quite as simple as that

 

[rippleman]

Since the emergence of Caicedo and inefficient players like Maupay and Moder dropping out of the starting eleven for various reasons, Brighton scored a good number of goals in the spring and the start of this season. While it is indeed true that the team has scored more goals with RDZ, it is difficult to tell if that would really be any different if GP was in charge against suicidal Wolves, Southampton and Everton.

RDZ > GP. Why? Solly March. End of.

 

[Questions]

If you could have a big red "bring back Potter" button, that would reinstall him/all his coaching team (as if nothing had happened) whilst erasing all the Chelsea/RDZ memories.

Would you push it?

It’s a good question is that but for me it would be no … Don’t push….. This next phase of our club is exciting….. It could go either way.

 

[SeagullsoverLondon]

So are you dropping a World Cup winner or the guy from Ecuador who is going to win the Ballon D'Or?

Didn't all three played together at the end of last season when we went on our fantastic run, beating Arsenal and Spurs away etc.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Chelsea are suffering the Potter effect of pretty but ineffective football. Under GP we would constantly draw games and he couldn't work out how to make us score for the majority of his tenure. He is a decent coach but no where near the genius that some thought on here! He is now another manager that used to manage us and no more!

Chelsea are suffering from a) a shedload of injuries and b) a wet lettuce of a chief coach that the dressing room has zero respect for

 

[Swansman]

RDZ > GP. Why? Solly March. End of.

...said he who switches opinion whenever the wind changes in a Tik-Tok-teenage style desperate attempt to get likes and confirmation.
What will you think about RDZ in a year or two? Depends on what "respected" twitterers and "bloggers with many readers" say, I suppose.

 

[Bold Seagull]

It's hard to imagine GPott being unhappy at halftime 1-0 away from home, demanding his team get on the front foot.

I've just watched a film called 'The Outfit' with Mark Rylance, his character toward the end says, and perhaps rings a bit with RDZ:

It's at the finishings that you must come to terms with the idea that perfection is a necessary goal, precisely because it is unattainable. If you don't aim for perfection, you cannot make anything great. And yet, true perfection is impossible.

 

[Beanstalk]

Since the emergence of Caicedo and inefficient players like Maupay and Moder dropping out of the starting eleven for various reasons, Brighton scored a good number of goals in the spring and the start of this season. While it is indeed true that the team has scored more goals with RDZ, it is difficult to tell if that would really be any different if GP was in charge against suicidal Wolves, Southampton and Everton.

We didn't score at home against suicidal Norwich last season. Yes our xG was higher than our output but over a three season size it is completely reductive and incorrect to blame it on lack of quality, individual errors and bad luck. We controlled a lot of the games we played, we created lots of higher xG chances in the box, but we didn't miss dozens of open goals in the process (one or two maybe).

Ridiculous to call Moder inefficient as well. Even Maupay, who may not have been quite good enough and clearly fell out with Potter at the end but was our top goal scorer in each of Potter's 3 seasons, including more than a quarter of our whole team goals in the first season. Caicedo is yet to score under De Zerbi as well and has only contributed one assist (in the last match v Everton) so whilst clearly a brilliant talent (and one that Potter had access to) he isn't exactly the most efficient goal contributor or much more involved than Moder at all (3 goal contributions vs 4).

 

[Albion in the north]

The biggest difference between GPott and RDZ at our club is that, with GPott, we drew some games that we probably might have lost otherwise, won a few that we wouldnt have under previous managers, but under RDZ we will lose some that we might have drawn but definitely wont be gving up or settling for what weve got in any game and will therefore win some that we might not have previously. Its an exciting ride that can go both ways with RDZ.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I've just watched a film called 'The Outfit' with Mark Rylance, his character toward the end says, and perhaps rings a bit with RDZ:

It's at the finishings that you must come to terms with the idea that perfection is a necessary goal, precisely because it is unattainable. If you don't aim for perfection, you cannot make anything great. And yet, true perfection is impossible.

I take it he never said "it is what it is" and shrugged his shoulders then?

 

[1066familyman]

This guy seems reasonable by Shed End standards (and not very impressed).

Graham Potter (Now Sacked ) - *Official* New (Now Old) Chelsea Manager

www.theshedend.com

But of course a thread pointing out that they're not scoring, that their fans also shout shoot in a frustrated manner and that they may not be preparing well (with question marks in title and post) is the real issue

This guy seems reasonable by Shed End standards (and not very impressed).

Graham Potter (Now Sacked ) - *Official* New (Now Old) Chelsea Manager

www.theshedend.com

But of course a thread pointing out that they're not scoring, that their fans also shout shoot in a frustrated manner and that they may not be preparing well (with question marks in title and post) is the real issue

I'm still waiting for the side order of injuries. Or is that now off the menu?

 

[Dick Swiveller]

Didn't all three played together at the end of last season when we went on our fantastic run, beating Arsenal and Spurs away etc.

Maybe but not entirely sure 3 players now seen as defensive midfielders is the de Zerbi way. Possible, I suppose, as the current two can play further forward but he prefers a Lallana/Gross type.

 

[Dick Swiveller]

This guy seems reasonable by Shed End standards (and not very impressed).

Graham Potter (Now Sacked ) - *Official* New (Now Old) Chelsea Manager

www.theshedend.com

But of course a thread pointing out that they're not scoring, that their fans also shout shoot in a frustrated manner and that they may not be preparing well (with question marks in title and post) is the real issue

Makes you wonder if raiding our entire toy cupboard was a bad idea. Not only is Potter not experienced at that level of expectation/player ego but neither are Reid/Hamberg/Bruno.

 

[Swansman]

We didn't score at home against suicidal Norwich last season. Yes our xG was higher than our output but over a three season size it is completely reductive and incorrect to blame it on lack of quality, individual errors and bad luck. We controlled a lot of the games we played, we created lots of higher xG chances in the box, but we didn't miss dozens of open goals in the process (one or two maybe).

Ridiculous to call Moder inefficient as well. Even Maupay, who may not have been quite good enough and clearly fell out with Potter at the end but was our top goal scorer in each of Potter's 3 seasons, including more than a quarter of our whole team goals in the first season. Caicedo is yet to score under De Zerbi as well and has only contributed one assist (in the last match v Everton) so whilst clearly a brilliant talent (and one that Potter had access to) he isn't exactly the most efficient goal contributor or much more involved than Moder at all (3 goal contributions vs 4).

Norwich wasn't suicidal, similar to how Nottingham wasn't suicidal when RDZ faced them this season. They sat back and defended successfully, unlike Everton and Southampton that both felt it was a clever idea to pressure high and leave a lot of space behind them.

Before GPs first season, Brighton were seen as a strong relegation candidate. It is only now retrospectively that people feel that the team back then was capable of scoring a shiteload of goals and challenging for top 10 and so forth.

Jakub Moder was very inefficient, Maupay did score goals but also missed more chances than most strikers.
Putting the ball in the net is just one part of scoring a goal. Caicedo may not score every day but his movement, control and ability to read the game creates a fuckload of good counter-attacks that have helped and improved Brightons goal scoring record since he first entered the pitch.

 

[Beanstalk]

But we had started scoring a lot more under GP before he left (granted not as much as we are currently under RDZ, but enough for folk to be very enthusiastic about the season ahead), and from across the pitch. And Chelsea hadn't been scoring before GP arrived, either. So it's not quite as simple as that

As I said in another post, if you excuse the Leicester game as an anomalous extraordinary result, Potter's goals per game ratio was only 0.1 goals per game better off than the previous season. We weren't scoring more goals in reality this season under Potter - we had got 4 wins (United, West Ham, Leeds and Leicester) out of our first six and things were looking incredibly rosy at that moment. For comparison, we had also managed 4 wins in our first six last season.

Of course, it's not as simple as GP is bad at coaching attackers (which I wouldn't say he is fundamentally - his style requires clinical finishing and composure to finish off high-xG passing moves and that requires good, in-form, players) and you are right about Chelsea struggling to score anyway. You would hope there'd be a new manager bounce with the calibre of forward they have and that hasn't occurred. There is however clear statistical data that implies that we are now more prolific goal scorers under RDZ, with the same squad, and that Chelsea are struggling to convert chances so far under Potter.