[Football] Coincidental (?) Potterish Things

[talk2knighty]

Small-club mentality. In big clubs, people who made a good job are recognised as such and remain praised long after they leave. It creates a culture where people give their all to the club, because they know it will be remembered and appreciated for a long while. Rewarding good work is one of the differences between the winners and losers.
Mind, it is clear that this thread was created by the most fickle of fickle human beings and it is good to see not everyone shares his view.

Small club mentality ffs, says the person pretending to be Swedish, goodness knows what “mentality “ that is

 

[Swansman]

Small club mentality ffs, says the person pretending to be Swedish, goodness knows what “mentality “ that is

What would be the exact purpose of pretending to be Swedish?

 

[AlbionBro]

Nah... f*** him.

I guess you are joking, if not are you an angry or hateful person in general?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

We've never been in the bottom three at the end of the season, but we were in the bottom three after our second ever game in the new division. We were 18th after losing 2-0 to both Man City and Leicester. We were still above Frank de Boer's Palace though.

Potter is a process manager and his methods take time and patience. He improved players here and he will improve players at Chelsea, if they are willing to hold their nerve. The new round of cash splashing in January could be the first signs of their new recruitment team's methods, but the reported hijacking of Arsenal's bid for Mudryk doesn't smell of a new approach. Potter's future was and remains dependent upon whether Boehly is true to his word about wanting to do things differently.

Posters looking for coincidences between us under Potter and Chelsea under Potter will find them because they want to find them. However, with such a small sample size to make comparisons, they don't mean very much. I find myself conflicted. As a football fan, I want clubs to have reliable ownership and stable management that wants to play football in the right way, so personal feelings aside, I should want Boehly to be true to his word and Potter to be given the chance to build things in the right way. As a Brighton fan, it's more convenient to our ambitions if one of the richest clubs in the country continues to be a bit of basket case. I don't really have a dog in the fight though. I don't despise Chelsea any more than I despise the rest of the failed Superleague six (and their new friends in the North).

I don't hope for the failure of our departees on a personal level. The way they left hurt, but less than the arrogant way that Poyet left and I still look back very fondly on his time as our manager. If things continue to go well, De Zerbi will be off one day as well. That's the nature of our position in the food chain. So long as we keep the bloke who funds and put in place the structure that finds these managers and players, we'll be enjoying our own fantastic ride and whether our exes flourish will only be of minor interest.

Boehly will be coming under increasing pressure from his consortium to turn things around at Chelsea. Would expect him to act decisively pretty soon if results don't start to improve

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

What would be the exact purpose of pretending to be Swedish?

Good point, well made

 

[talk2knighty]

What would be the exact purpose of pretending to be Swedish?

To disguise, quite successfully I might add, your real identity, and whilst we are on the subject of Potty, a history lesson lost on you woul be managers like Lloyd, Mullers, Gritt and Adams in my opinion whom all have given a lot more to this club than Potter ever has.

 

[Brok]

I guess you are joking, if not are you an angry or hateful person in general?

No. And neither.

Next question?

 

[Bold Seagull]

Small-club mentality. In big clubs, people who made a good job are recognised as such and remain praised long after they leave. It creates a culture where people give their all to the club, because they know it will be remembered and appreciated for a long while. Rewarding good work is one of the differences between the winners and losers.
Mind, it is clear that this thread was created by the most fickle of fickle human beings and it is good to see not everyone shares his view.

I think the difference isn't mentality, it's that managers rarely get poached from or leave a big club for another job when things are going well.

They generally get sacked or part ways of mutual consent for the end of their tenure. I doubt Liverpool fans for example a year or so ago when they were winning the league would have waved Klopp a fond farewell had he up sticks in the middle of a great season for Real Madrid.

Unless you can recall any instances of a manager of a big club having one of the best seasons for that club and leaving for another club during a great season? And if you do recall an instance, was that person showered with praise and thanks as they left?

 

[Mellotron]

I don't. They had the opportunity to stay. Greedy wankers.

Do we know this for a fact? I thought they were told there was a decent chance De Zerbi/the incoming manager would want to bring his own men with him, as is pretty much always the case at this level.

 

[Dibdab]

Small-club mentality. In big clubs, people who made a good job are recognised as such and remain praised long after they leave. It creates a culture where people give their all to the club, because they know it will be remembered and appreciated for a long while. Rewarding good work is one of the differences between the winners and losers.
Mind, it is clear that this thread was created by the most fickle of fickle human beings and it is good to see not everyone shares his view.

Complete nonsense. Name me one top manager or player that left a "big" club doing well for another club in the UK who was still remembered fondly?

I can give you a very long list of players who were utterly despised for doing so.

 

[Beanstalk]

Here's me thinking we progressed very well overall under Potter, with most fans thinking this season was shaping up to be a very memorable one under him (obviously we now know it could/should still be a very memorable one and potentially even more memorable than we previously thought)

I guess this is the thing. It was shaping up after a promising but often frustrating progression (lots of long runs of poor form especially at home) but he jumped ship before delivering on it. The whole point of progression is that you take the good and the bad with the understanding that the bad gets smaller and smaller - that moment of clarity on the process was going to be this season but he walked.

I think RDZ has highlighted that some of the accepted flaws (lack of goals) were down to coaching/playing style issues rather than a lack of quality in the squad as the media would often tell us. Those issues are now rearing their head at Chelsea whilst our squad are scoring for fun. Haaland has more goals than Chelsea this season - 12 goals in 11 games so far under Potter.

 

[Swansman]

To disguise, quite successfully I might add, your real identity, and whilst we are on the subject of Potty, a history lesson lost on you woul be managers like Lloyd, Mullers, Gritt and Adams in my opinion whom all have given a lot more to this club than Potter ever has.

Regulars here have seen videos of me talking about The Graham Potter Cult (and while I don't have Svens terrible accent, it was probably noticable that I'm Swedish) and a lot of people here know my full name. Whatever you think about me or Graham Potter, I am quite simply Swedish.

 

[talk2knighty]

Complete nonsense. Name me one top manager or player that left a "big" club doing well for another club in the UK who was still remembered fondly?

I can give you a very long list of players who were utterly despised for doing so.

Rooney?

 

[Guinness Boy]

Small-club mentality. In big clubs, people who made a good job are recognised as such and remain praised long after they leave. It creates a culture where people give their all to the club, because they know it will be remembered and appreciated for a long while. Rewarding good work is one of the differences between the winners and losers.
Mind, it is clear that this thread was created by the most fickle of fickle human beings and it is good to see not everyone shares his view.

 

[Swansman]

I guess this is the thing. It was shaping up after a promising but often frustrating progression (lots of long runs of poor form especially at home) but he jumped ship before delivering on it. The whole point of progression is that you take the good and the bad with the understanding that the bad gets smaller and smaller - that moment of clarity on the process was going to be this season but he walked.

I think RDZ has highlighted that some of the accepted flaws (lack of goals) were down to coaching/playing style issues rather than a lack of quality in the squad as the media would often tell us. Those issues are now rearing their head at Chelsea whilst our squad are scoring for fun. Haaland has more goals than Chelsea this season - 12 goals in 11 games so far under Potter.

So why did Brighton score a lot of goals with GP in charge of the current squad but not a lot of goals with previous squads if it was all down to coaching and not down to the quality of Maupay, Connolly, Ali J etc?

 

[Beanstalk]

Do we know this for a fact? I thought they were told there was a decent chance De Zerbi/the incoming manager would want to bring his own men with him, as is pretty much always the case at this level.

Very difficult for the club to offer long term assurances but the word coming out of the club after the fact was that there would have been places found for them during the transition at the very least and then up to the new manager. The club like to cultivate and keep staff members connected to the club for both financial and cultural reasons so it would've been very unlikely Bruno or Ben found themselves unemployed. Club also feel that fans should cut Bruno and Roberts some slack now the initial anger has subsided - they were loyal to the club for a very long time, during one of our most successful periods. Noticeably no mention of cutting slack to any other members of staff who left though.

 

[Zeberdi]

We do not (and can never) know whether our progress under Hughton would have been quicker or more enjoyable under Potter. We do not (and can never) know whether we will have done better, sooner under De Zerbi than under Potter.

Sorry but I think we probably can to a large extent!

Managers have different skill sets and talents - otherwise they would all be of a similar calibre - just within the PL, you can’t really put Pep and Klopp on the same level as O’Neil or Moyes (even without the vast resources at their disposal) and particular managers suit particular teams at particular times, especially if that team is on a progressive development as Brighton are.

As fond as I and most of us, were of Hughton (and the Club was of him), he had got to a point where his ideas parted company with what PB and TB thought the club needed in order to stay up in the PL. Just as an example, in the first few seasons, Hughton had us still sitting much deeper with more direct attacks and minimal pressing in the opposition third. We had a similar counter-attacking game to how Watford, Burnley, and Newcastle were playing at the time and were not going to challenge for a top 10 (which was the TB/PB dream) playing such defensive football where we would retreat into a low block every time we faced a press and very likely, would have struggled to stay up.

In came Potter and changed our style that, over time, our play was characterised by playing out from the back with possession and control - we began to play like the big 6 except with far less resources. Even with the lack of players that Potter really needed to implement his style, and having to retrain the ones he had, we became less direct and more patient and began to draw the opposition forward to create space behind their defensive lines. Unfortunately it took until 2021/22 (and more signings especially of AMs that could score goals!) for us to combine that with the pressing intensity and (not until the end of 2021/22 to beginning of 2022/3) the clinical finishing we needed to compete for a top 10 finish. By the time GP left, we had a good combination of high pressing and aggressive counter-attacking to put us on course for even a higher finish in 2022/3.

I don’t know how far GP could have taken us if he had stayed - and looking at Chelsea now doesn’t give us clues imo other than Boehly seems to want to emulate our academy pathways and data-led modus operandi. However, I suspect, RDZ is taking us further forward than GP would have done - and while GP is an excellent tactician, he is more of a Southgate than a Pep in terms of taking risks. In RDZ, we have the benefit of a manager that has more belief, vision, passion, Championship experience and a wealth of Italian experience. Most importantly RDZ is not risk averse and not scared to concede goals if it means a more aggressive push from us. Brighton as a team have already outgrown GP’s management style - and are a much stronger competitor now than under Potter and were much stronger under Potter than we were under Hughton. However, I don’t think that is because GP was a ‘fraud’ or ‘poor manager’, he isn’t and we became a seriously real PL competitor under him but managers don’t operate in a vacuum and RDZ suits us better for where we are right now and where we want to go.

(sorry for the long post - just trying to input some balance.)

 

[Stat Brother]

Can we not just all agree - all the time we're above them - it's flipping funny?

 

[Guinness Boy]

This guy seems reasonable by Shed End standards (and not very impressed).

Graham Potter (Now Sacked ) - *Official* New (Now Old) Chelsea Manager

www.theshedend.com

But of course a thread pointing out that they're not scoring, that their fans also shout shoot in a frustrated manner and that they may not be preparing well (with question marks in title and post) is the real issue

 

[Beanstalk]

So why did Brighton score a lot of goals with GP in charge of the current squad but not a lot of goals with previous squads if it was all down to coaching and not down to the quality of Maupay, Connolly, Ali J etc?

What on earth are you talking about?

In our three seasons under Potter we scored 39 goals, 40 goals and 42 goals. That's 1.06 per game and a consistent record across three seasons, including last season with basically the current squad.

This season, we scored 11 in 6 under Potter (including an anomalous result of 5 in one game). If you excuse the Leicester result as extraordinary then we scored at 1.2 gpg this season under Potter. We've scored 21 in 11 under De Zerbi at 1.9 gpg - even with the Leicester game included that is an improvement. We, with the same squad are scoring more goals. That is undeniable.

Potter is a fine manager, and did a lot of truly wonderful work at Brighton that he should be applauded for. He also struggled to coach a team to score lots of goals, playing his style of football.