[Football] Coincidental (?) Potterish Things

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

As I said in another post, if you excuse the Leicester game as an anomalous extraordinary result, Potter's goals per game ratio was only 0.1 goals per game better off than the previous season. We weren't scoring more goals in reality this season under Potter - we had got 4 wins (United, West Ham, Leeds and Leicester) out of our first six and things were looking incredibly rosy at that moment. For comparison, we had also managed 4 wins in our first six last season.

Of course, it's not as simple as GP is bad at coaching attackers (which I wouldn't say he is fundamentally - his style requires clinical finishing and composure to finish off high-xG passing moves and that requires good, in-form, players) and you are right about Chelsea struggling to score anyway. You would hope there'd be a new manager bounce with the calibre of forward they have and that hasn't occurred. There is however clear statistical data that implies that we are now more prolific goal scorers under RDZ, with the same squad, and that Chelsea are struggling to convert chances so far under Potter.

Could be something as simple as RDZ's enthusiasm rubs off on to already excelente players

 

[Beanstalk]

Norwich wasn't suicidal, similar to how Nottingham wasn't suicidal when RDZ faced them this season. They sat back and defended successfully, unlike Everton and Southampton that both felt it was a clever idea to pressure high and leave a lot of space behind them.

Before GPs first season, Brighton were seen as a strong relegation candidate. It is only now retrospectively that people feel that the team back then was capable of scoring a shiteload of goals and challenging for top 10 and so forth.

Jakub Moder was very inefficient, Maupay did score goals but also missed more chances than most strikers.
Putting the ball in the net is just one part of scoring a goal. Caicedo may not score every day but his movement, control and ability to read the game creates a fuckload of good counter-attacks that have helped and improved Brightons goal scoring record since he first entered the pitch.

It's like talking to a very dull brick wall.

Potter was very good at Brighton. In the context that existed whilst he was here, he was fantastic. He had flaws that are now clear to see and got a lot of slack from the media with blame often thrown onto the players instead. BUT, that doesn't mean he didn't do a good job or didn't deserve the credit that landed him the Chelsea pay cheque.

We factually, score more goals under RDZ than we did under Potter - that comparison is a statistical fact whether you look at Potter's whole reign or just when they had the exact same squads. It is very exciting and fun. I loved a lot of the time under Potter, especially away from home. Now I am really excited about going to the Albion home and away, in a way I can't really remember being since Poyet (maybe Hughton in the promotion charge, but remember that feeling quite like we needed to get out of the league a lot more than pure joy). Isn't that the point of being a football fan?

Good luck on the Shed End Swanny. They're a far more expectant lot than us.

 

[Stat Brother]

I've just watched a film called 'The Outfit' with Mark Rylance, his character toward the end says, and perhaps rings a bit with RDZ:

It's at the finishings that you must come to terms with the idea that perfection is a necessary goal, precisely because it is unattainable. If you don't aim for perfection, you cannot make anything great. And yet, true perfection is impossible.

I'm not being over critical.
I can't help thinking we'll reach a point of 'FFS just dull-out for the easy 3 points and say thankyou'.

But getting to that seems to be a lot more fun and using it as the default setting.

 

[Swansman]

It's like talking to a very dull brick wall.

Potter was very good at Brighton. In the context that existed whilst he was here, he was fantastic. He had flaws that are now clear to see and got a lot of slack from the media with blame often thrown onto the players instead. BUT, that doesn't mean he didn't do a good job or didn't deserve the credit that landed him the Chelsea pay cheque.

We factually, score more goals under RDZ than we did under Potter - that comparison is a statistical fact whether you look at Potter's whole reign or just when they had the exact same squads. It is very exciting and fun. I loved a lot of the time under Potter, especially away from home. Now I am really excited about going to the Albion home and away, in a way I can't really remember being since Poyet (maybe Hughton in the promotion charge, but remember that feeling quite like we needed to get out of the league a lot more than pure joy). Isn't that the point of being a football fan?

Good luck on the Shed End Swanny. They're a far more expectant lot than us.

Thank you. You are like talking to a puddle of water - making a lot of conclusions based on what may be temporary conditions. Tomorrow things may dry up, and the things you now assume may be a thing of the past.

RDZ has managed the team for less than a dozen league games and people have already reached the conclusion that under him there will always be plenty of goals, that it will now be fun to watch the home games (after all, Brighton has won one home game since he took over, so this is clearly based on some fact-based reality than some fickle perception founded in the pleasure of the new) and that Graham Potter was shite all along because he couldn't make a much worse team reach the same results that the much better team is doing now and at the end of GPs tenure.

No doubt will there be tough times again, and no doubt will these conclusions stated with firm confidence be rocked by their foundations, with "RDZ in/out threads" all over the place and a bunch of made up hindsights where some will reach the conclusion, with firm confidence, that he wasn't really ever all that good. It happens to every coach, everywhere, and people will learn nothing from it and this footy equivalent of Madonna-whore complex will go on for eternity.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

To disguise, quite successfully I might add, your real identity, and whilst we are on the subject of Potty, a history lesson lost on you woul be managers like Lloyd, Mullers, Gritt and Adams in my opinion whom all have given a lot more to this club than Potter ever has.

To suggest that Potter is our greatest ever manager is at the very least disrespectful to others. Mullery got us from tier 3 to the top tier and kept us there after being rock bottom and adrift. Billy Lane managed us for 14 years and when only one club got promoted, secured higher status for the first time in our history. Steve Gritt achieved heroics in preventing us becoming a non league club and facing possible oblivion. Gus Poyet took a bottom half tier 3 side and in just over a season produced a title winning side and gave us a hugely better platform to start life at the Amex before establishing our challenging credential. Chris Hughton took over a side destined for the 3rd tier and not only steadied the ship but rebuilt and took us to the promised land and kept us there for two seasons.
The analysis has to take into account the situation when a particular manager took over and the resources at his disposal. There is fierce competition at every level. Just see how many former league clubs are in the National League. The Premier League is unforgiving and the ultimate test, so Potters record will always be admired but there are others equally worthy of mention.

 

[Questions]

I've just watched a film called 'The Outfit' with Mark Rylance, his character toward the end says, and perhaps rings a bit with RDZ:

It's at the finishings that you must come to terms with the idea that perfection is a necessary goal, precisely because it is unattainable. If you don't aim for perfection, you cannot make anything great. And yet, true perfection is impossible.

I’m the same with my sponge cakes.

 

[talk2knighty]

Chelsea are suffering the Potter effect of pretty but ineffective football. Under GP we would constantly draw games and he couldn't work out how to make us score for the majority of his tenure. He is a decent coach but no where near the genius that some thought on here! He is now another manager that used to manage us and no more!

Let’s not forget that marvellous night against Palace at the Amex, I genuinely cannot imagine a RDZ team losing that game to Woy and his one shot wonders!!!

 

[Swansman]

Let’s not forget that marvellous night against Palace at the Amex, I genuinely cannot imagine a RDZ team losing that game to Woy and his one shot wonders!!!

They were probably a bit better than Charlton are.

 

[rippleman]

Has someone hacked this account, can someone check?

Later in that thread:-

"let’s give potter a few transfer windows to get a squad he wants, without all the players we know are past it and see what he does. Otherwise we’re about 2 sackings away from appointing Sam Allerdyce"

 

[Stato]

I might be reading the wrong post, because that supposedly sensible Chelsea poster doesn't seem that sensible to me: "is he expected to just learn on the job and beat the likes of Klopp, Pep, Conte, Emery, Arteta etc." Yes.... Putting aside that he has already beaten all of those managers with Brighton (except Emery who he drew with twice in our two games against him), how else does any manager get to 'elite level'?

The thought that you have to have experience of managing one of these super-rich clubs in order to manage one of these super-rich clubs is utter tosh propogated by the fans of those clubs who like to believe that they are something special. You're just a football club, but with more money. Roberto Di Matteo won the FA Cup and Champions League with Chelsea with only the experience of managing West Brom and MK Franchise. The only difference in managing one of these clubs is the scale of entitlement among the fans and owners.

Chelsea have spent decades chucking billions at the first team whilst letting De Bruyne, Salah, Lukaku, Tomori etc. escape and do the business at other clubs because they have been owned and supported by a bunch of four year olds who would rather have one sweet now than a whole packet of sweets in an hour's time. Your club is absolutely minted, but it's structure has been a joke for years, consistently hoovering up the world's best youth prospects and never putting them in the first team. Potter might not end up being the answer, but this certainly won't be clear after a dozen or so games. If Potter's not the answer after a couple of season, then establishing a reputation for a bit of stable governance might attract the person who is, because at the moment the empire builders like Klopp and Guardiola wouldn't touch Chelsea with a bargepole.

If you hold your nerve and accept that you will be building for a year or two, then you might be able to build something that will consistently and perhaps even sustainably, compete with City, Newcastle and the European slush fund clubs. If you don't, you will just continue to spend billions on less and less frequent gratification in cup competitions. In other words, in the long term, do you want to be like Manchester City, or like Manchester United?

 

[ConfusedGloryHunter]

I loved Potter, thought he was brilliant and was absolutely gutted when he left. I went from day-dreaming about a Champions League spot to wondering if we might get sucked into a relegation battle once again. RDZ has come along, restored my optimism and has us playing in a very exciting style, at least as good as under Potter and it may prove to be even better.

To express this another way: I would say it feels like I got dumped by Scarlett Johannson only to have Gal Gadot hitting on me a week later and asking if she can bring a girlfriend.

I suppose, to carry on the analogy, if I then sat around claiming Scarlett was actually a bit of a moose after all then everyone would quite rightly mock me for my bitter and ridiculous claims. However it would be completely understandable if I were to giggle in glee should anything bad happen in the life of the heartless cow. So goodbye Graham, thanks for all the memories and hello Gal. I mean RDZ.

 

[talk2knighty]

I loved Potter, thought he was brilliant and was absolutely gutted when he left. I went from day-dreaming about a Champions League spot to wondering if we might get sucked into a relegation battle once again. RDZ has come along, restored my optimism and has us playing in a very exciting style, at least as good as under Potter and it may prove to be even better.

To express this another way: I would say it feels like I got dumped by Scarlett Johannson only to have Gal Gadot hitting on me a week later and asking if she can bring a girlfriend.

I suppose, to carry on the analogy, if I then sat around claiming Scarlett was actually a bit of a moose after all then everyone would quite rightly mock me for my bitter and ridiculous claims. However it would be completely understandable if I were to giggle in glee should anything bad happen in the life of the heartless cow. So goodbye Graham, thanks for all the memories and hello Gal. I mean RDZ.

But no one would say you were being ‘bitter’, that bitch Scarlett cheated on you with another man

 

[NorthstandRacoon]

Small-club mentality. In big clubs, people who made a good job are recognised as such and remain praised long after they leave. It creates a culture where people give their all to the club, because they know it will be remembered and appreciated for a long while. Rewarding good work is one of the differences between the winners and losers.
Mind, it is clear that this thread was created by the most fickle of fickle human beings and it is good to see not everyone shares his view.

Piss off. You clearly don’t get it. It’s a very English thing to get f***ed off at this course of action. We like loyalty and tradition and honesty. The remark ‘small club mentality’, is disrespectful, but, you love trying to be billy big bollocks. If you love potter so much, f*** off to Chelsea.

 

[NorthstandRacoon]

Do we know this for a fact? I thought they were told there was a decent chance De Zerbi/the incoming manager would want to bring his own men with him, as is pretty much always the case at this level.

The club would have 100% have worked with them and De Zerbi on this. ££££ talks, snakes.

 

[Mellotron]

The club would have 100% have worked with them and De Zerbi on this. ££££ talks, snakes.

Doesn't mean the jobs they wanted would've been there - if De Zerbi wanted his own new GK coach and striking coach (likely), he'd get them.

It still would've been a very risky for them financially. There isn't an endless supply of well-paid jobs at the club.

 

[BNthree]

Do we know this for a fact? I thought they were told there was a decent chance De Zerbi/the incoming manager would want to bring his own men with him, as is pretty much always the case at this level.

Do we know this for a fact?

 

[Springal]

Doesn't mean the jobs they wanted would've been there - if De Zerbi wanted his own new GK coach and striking coach (likely), he'd get them.

It still would've been a very risky for them financially. There isn't an endless supply of well-paid jobs at the club.

Do you think RDZ asked for Andrew Crofts or was he a Bruno style placement

 

[sydney]

No thank you, let's look forwards rather than backwards

i answered the question .....Biss and Caciedo together would have most midfields in bits.

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

They’ll spend literally £100m’s on proven stars of the Qatar WC, adding to the £225m blown last summer, then we’ll be told that Potter has turned the situation around. That’s not coaching. It cheque book cheating, something The Chavs started.

It was around way before that. And Blackburn, thanks to jack walker, invented it in the Prem.

 

[NorthstandRacoon]

Doesn't mean the jobs they wanted would've been there - if De Zerbi wanted his own new GK coach and striking coach (likely), he'd get them.

It still would've been a very risky for them financially. There isn't an endless supply of well-paid jobs at the club.

I hope you are right, but it looks different from where I am standing.