[Music] British v American Punk

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Actually, in punk-adjacent news, I'm seeing Dr Feelgood in Shoreham next week - all I know is Milk & Alcohol, She Does It Right, Roxette.

Anyone seen them? Anything I should know/expect? Seeing them with me Dad who is a fan, excuse for a social occasion really - if it was my choice we'd be seeing The Smile next March in Brighton...

None of the original line up. So a covers band, really. Not remotely medically qualified.

 

[Mellotron]

None of the original line up. So a covers band, really. Not remotely medically qualified.

3 of them have been in there since the 1983, so that's not too bad is it?

 

[SeagullsoverLondon]

How would you describe Dylan's greatest album (imho), Desire?

I love Desire (Although Blood on the Tacks for me is No 1).
The narrative structure of many of the songs are definitely based upon traditional Scottish and Irish folk balladry e.g Isis, Black Diamond Bay etc, and of course Hurricane was his first "protest song" in over 10 years (unless you count "I shall be released" as a protest song)
However, the music itself is not traditional folk music, but a more richer stew of styles and influences.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I think the thing is, the discussion about what is punk and what isn't has led people off on the tangents.
To my way of thinking, there are actually not that many "punk records" in reality, as even those "punk bands" that started out morphed into something else after an album or two (see discussion re The Clash,) and I would add The Damned and many others to that who changed with the fashion.

But then "genrelisations" can be difficult. If you say the name Bob Dylan" most people would say "Folk Singer" when in a reality he composed and sang in the folk idiom for 3 or 4 years at most out of 60 odd years in music.

I agree with your first point. And I suspect I have most of them

Second point is harsh. The track below is not 'fashionable' but it is amazing. f***ing amazing.



There is another version of the same online with actual concert sound.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

3 of them have been in there since the 1983, so that's not too bad is it?

Jonny come latelys

(My mate Bob has seen them many times and says they are brilliant. You'll love it).

 

[Weststander]

Trans Europe Express as well. I still find it quite amazing that Autobahn was released in 1974!

I've got that. Acquired from the old HMV in Churchill Square.

 

[Dick Head]

I was balls-deep into English punk from late 76. Finally cut off my hair early 77. Did my hair DIY for years after that. Mum said I looked 'fierce'. Could have been the eye liner and the unalloyed look of joy in the eye of an autistic boy finally enjoying freedom.

The American 'punk' wasn't really anything of the sort in 76/77. The Stooges had long gone, with Iggy a rock icon with those two albums from Berlin in the pipeline. The MC5 were always wankers. NYD were fun but were straight up and down rock, despite whatever Bob Harris thought. Richard Hell 'blank generation' was copied off UK fashion and was a bit wanky. Patti Smith was art school (good, but not punk). 1977 this is. Not 1982.

And so, English punk. Bat shit mental gigs. My mate Nils temporarily lost his eyesight watching the Damned. The Brighton scene in 77 was great fun. With me back in London late 77 I got Siousxie, The Stranglers, X Ray Spex, Gen X, Chelsea...and then by the end of 77 we had Wire and it had all moved on. The long overcoats were appearing. The Fall were here.

American 'punk, based on English punk started later. West coast stuff like Black Flag. In Canada the wonderful DOA. But I had moved on by then and 'pogoing' was not going to happen. Any more.

OK back to roots. It has been said that early punk was Rokie Erikson, The Count Five. Even Love. Even Jonathan Richman. f*** off. Punk as we know it started with The Damned. The Pistols, brilliant though they were, can easily be seen now as a rock band. Compare Neat Neat Neat with Anarchy in the UK. I love them both, but only one of them was new music. The Pistols were great rock thanks to Steve and Paul, elevated with an auteur genius vocalist, JL. His vocals were a thing of beauty. But inspired by the likes of Peter Hammill.

Anyway, truth, beauty, fashion, just enjoy what you like. Tonight I am mostly listening to Wearesadband. Life goes on, and music is life.

Yeah, but English punk wouldn't have been anything without the French.

 

[Weststander]

I agree with your first point. And I suspect I have most of them

Second point is harsh. The track below is not 'fashionable' but it is amazing. f***ing amazing.



There is another version of the same online with actual concert sound.

I've always had a soft spot for Captain Sensible.

Now we know Adam Ant copied his look from David Vanian.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I've got that. Acquired from the old HMV in Churchill Square.

I remember that HMV fondly. I distinctly remember buying Kings of The Wild Frontier, Stranglers Bear Cage 12” and The Cure’s Forest. Bought loads of others but for some reason remember these.

 

[Dick Head]

Liberty, Fraternity, Anarchy - Le Punk Francais - BBC Sounds

Andrew Hussey explores how France played a pivotal role in the explosion of 1970s punk.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Mr Bridger]

...as a follow-up I did see ACDC with Axl fronting them......quite extraordinary.

I went to the London stadium to see AC/DC with Axl, thought his voice suited them well.
I wasn’t really into AC/DC but my wife was so went along to see them at Wembley for the Black Ice tour and they blew me away. Never see a crowd get involved as much and loved it. Went a few months later to see them again at Monsters of Rock at Donnington where they had their own stage, again another fantastic show.
Every year the tribute band Livewire play local to us so we go along for a decent night out.

 

[SeagullsoverLondon]

I agree with your first point. And I suspect I have most of them

Second point is harsh. The track below is not 'fashionable' but it is amazing. f***ing amazing.



There is another version of the same online with actual concert sound.

I did not want to suggest that the Damned made less interesting or good music. And I won't post a video of Captain Sensible doing Happy Talk in riposte. We have all suffered enough!

I was perhaps clumsy with my words. What I meant was bands knew that had to move on musically or die (as it had always been). Even Status Quo eventually realised you couldn't just play the same tune over and over again (all over the world) as people get bored and move on. As they thankfully did with the Quo.

 

[Mr Bridger]

Actually, in punk-adjacent news, I'm seeing Dr Feelgood in Shoreham next week - all I know is Milk & Alcohol, She Does It Right, Roxette.

Anyone seen them? Anything I should know/expect? Seeing them with me Dad who is a fan, excuse for a social occasion really - if it was my choice we'd be seeing The Smile next March

See them a couple of times, they do an annual Christmas gig at The Musician in Leicester. Good night out if you like Bluesy rock.
As a side note while Your here, I’ve just this week finished the 1001 albums before you die book you recommended during lockdown. Never thought it would take me this long, found some good music and waded through some shit but got there in the end. You must still be going through it with your approach?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I did not want to suggest that the Damned made less interesting or good music. And I won't post a video of Captain Sensible doing Happy Talk in riposte. We have all suffered enough!

I was perhaps clumsy with my words. What I meant was bands knew that had to move on musically or die (as it had always been). Even Status Quo eventually realised you couldn't just play the same tune over and over again (all over the world) as people get bored and move on. As they thankfully did with the Quo.

Fair enough. At least you didn't say 'sold out'

'Even Status Quo' are not words that I would ever use, though

 

[loz]

I did not want to suggest that the Damned made less interesting or good music. And I won't post a video of Captain Sensible doing Happy Talk in riposte. We have all suffered enough!

I was perhaps clumsy with my words. What I meant was bands knew that had to move on musically or die (as it had always been). Even Status Quo eventually realised you couldn't just play the same tune over and over again (all over the world) as people get bored and move on. As they thankfully did with the Quo.

If you watch the TOTP video I believe our Captain sings the C word…”I am such a lucky C- -T

 

[aftershavedave]

Here's my take on this: punk definitely started in the US as a musical formula maybe as far back as the late 60s, and inspirational bands like Television, Richard Hell & The Voidoids, the Ramones, New York Dolls (particularly) were the inspiration for UK punk. The Damned (New Rose) and bands like the Clash, Pistols, Chelsea etc took that inspiration and changed it completely. New Rose is a seminal release indeed. The music IS different from US punk, and the look is very english. I never got the punk/ new wave thing, it was a subtle difference indeed. I saw the Vibrators, Chelsea and the Cortinas at the age of 14 at the Roundhouse in early 78, and the experience was so different to anything else it was amazing. Bands like Green Day, Sham 69 etc were post punk and rubbish imo. Punk died in 78 (if not before) but allowed bands such as XTC etc to exist. The London pub scene of the early 70s (Brinsleys, Dury, 101ers etc) had a massive influence. So, there is no "best" because they are different cousins. Latter day US "punk" is nothing of the sort. Most of us interested at the time, I think had moved on before 79. I find it highly amusing when friends say, yey the Pistols! saw them in 2000 etc. It was a pastiche by then

 

[happypig]

Talking of the Damned, Rat Scabies is back with them and they're coming to Eastbourne (EASTBOURNE I TELL YOU !), next December. £48.50 a ticket though, which I suppose is the going rate these days (sanatogen and Wethers originals don't buy themselves).

AEG Presents The Damned

Music pioneers The Damned announce a huge 12-date UK tour for December 2024, bringing their 80’s line-up back together with the return of Rat Scabies playing Eastbourne's Winter Garden on 14 December 2024.

www.eastbournetheatres.co.uk

I'll be there.

 

[Weststander]

I remember that HMV fondly. I distinctly remember buying Kings of The Wild Frontier, Stranglers Bear Cage 12” and The Cure’s Forest. Bought loads of others but for some reason remember these.

For me; Eno, Ultravox, Roxy, John Foxx. Our friend Rounder Records didn't exist until a bit later.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

For me; Eno, Ultravox, Roxy, John Foxx. Our friend Rounder Records didn't exist until a bit later.

I think the earliest album I can remember buying from Rounder was UFO's Misdemeanour; Rounder was a 'chart shop' and I got a signed copy. This was 1985. I didn't frequent the shop much when I lived in London but returned with a vengeance in 2003 when I moved to Hove. I loved that shop, Jonny and Steve were such lovely and enthusiastic people.

I have always said that when I win billions on the lottery I will re-instate Harrys English Restaurant, Rounder Records and pay for a tram system in Brighton. I have spent considerable time developing this plan; The Super Furry Animals will reform and perform Inaugural Trams at the opening ceremony.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Incidentally Hendrix died in 1970 so I find it hard to imagine he rated this (below), one album by Taste, the sum total of stuff Gallagher had released in the US by 1970, as better than Hendrix's own lifetime output. There may be a banger in here, but . . . really?

View attachment 170144

I'm almost certain that Hendrix will have seen Gallagher live either in a club in London or at a festival somewhere (pretty sure Taste played the IoW in 1970, also pretty sure Hendrix wouldn't have been sat around watching their set).
I have some doubts that he ever actually said that line about Gallagher being the best guitarist in the world.
I have no doubt at all that if he did say it he didn't mean it literally.