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[Politics] Brexit
- Thread starter KingstonSeagull
- Start date
Garry Nelson's teacher
Well-known member
Love this idea of 'the dignified majority' especially given some of their representatives on this thread, 'dignified' not being the first adjective to spring to mind.
It really does beggar belief that with fewer than 5 weeks to go people still don't know what will happen. This is having a real impact on people's lives and livelihoods. It's criminally negligent on the part of our Government.
Even No Deal needs to be prepared for. Only a true madman would think something so massive could "just happen" and that everything will be fine afterwards.
Even No Deal needs to be prepared for. Only a true madman would think something so massive could "just happen" and that everything will be fine afterwards.
At least we agree on one thing. Now if you would just refrain from posting utter drivel........
Lincoln Imp
Well-known member
- Feb 2, 2009
- 5,964
Deflection: I asked you how many of the job gains you brought up were related to Brexit and you go off on some non-sequitur about how most job gains/losses are due to more than one cause and only Remainer plonkers think otherwise.
Your non-sequitur is obviously true in the same way that if the local river bursts its banks and your house falls down then the disaster isn't 100 per cent due to the river bursting its banks. And more specifically: when Honda said last year that the retention of frictionless trade was absolutely essential to the future of UK automobile manufacturing and it now appears that frictionless trade will not be retained then it is reasonable for Honda to say that there are additional reasons for the company deciding to bugger off. (Although as I recall, you then claimed that Brexit had nothing at all to do with Honda's departure on the simple grounds that some PR statement said so.)
It is a shame that some Brexiteers still get leverage from Boris's "Project Fear". Given that every projection from the government and just about everyone else apart from Patrick Minford accepts that every single form of Brexit will cost the country money, those diehards still rabbiting on about Project Fear have long been reduced to complaining about the timing of the predictions rather than their long-term substance.
But I tell you what. Even if every single prediction of economic effect was proven to be an absolute lie (which it won't be) then I would still say that lies about money are way less distasteful than the revolting claims about immigrants and refugees made up by calculating Leave campaigners. Posters showing young men (the women and children were cropped from the photo) with tinted skin marching towards us... claims on live TV that migrants would rape and molest our English roses... reports that 70 million muslims - agh, muslims - were set to arrive. Misinterpretations? If you really think so then explain why Penny Mordaunt, now a government minister and possible leadership candidate, categorically stated that the UK would have no veto over Turkey and its muslims joining the EU. That's not an exaggeration or an example of wrongly-predicted timing. It's a lie. A lie designed to make human beings frightened of other human beings.
JC Footy Genius
Bringer of TRUTH
- Jun 9, 2015
- 10,568
Hardly a non sequitur as it's entirely relevant that job losses and gains are usually based on a multitude of factors so asking about just one cause is unhelpful and pretty pointless in most cases. Speaking of deflection I see you haven't answered the questions I posed.
1.) As you believe highlighting just one cause is a useful process … How many jobs have been lost specifically down to Brexit (which hasn't happened yet)?
2.) Did you believe the immediate 500,000 more unemployed project fear claim?
Btw seeking to influence the electorate by spreading project fear fibs about mass unemployment is pretty distasteful in my book
Please point me to any post where you stated your outrage and horror at the Remain campaign when they used similar campaign tactics … fear of 'tinted skin' immigrants/refugees coming to the UK.
Britain 'faces influx of 50,000 asylum seekers' if it leaves the European Union
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ne...camps-in-southern-England-if-Brexit-vote.html
nicko31
Well-known member
Leaked gov papers talk of a £12B hardship fund for the poor to survive a no deal Brexit
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/no-deal-hardship-fund-planned-for-surge-in-jobless-sthj7g79g
Think they are losing their mind.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/no-deal-hardship-fund-planned-for-surge-in-jobless-sthj7g79g
Think they are losing their mind.
Baker lite
Banned
Two Professors
Two Mad Professors
You and Nibble are a pair of clowns,and there's only one of you.Probably.
Two Professors
Two Mad Professors
Some time ago?As you only joined this month,who were you posting as?Oh,don't bother answering.Remainers are all pretty dishonest,anyway.
Baldseagull
Well-known member
Not a majority now either, by most reckonings.
Baker lite
Banned
- Jul 10, 2003
- 25,897
And here we go again
I don't see how anyone can be bothered by your vote as no one knows what you voted for, least of all you
And it appears the earliest you may find out will be 12th March 2019, nearly 3 years after you voted.
I'm not worried in the slightest. I have no doubt that you, and others, thought you knew what you were voting for.
The one (and possibly only) thing the last 2 years 8 months has shown us, is that you quite evidently, didn't
If it was I suspect the Leavers wouldn't be quite so terrified of the idea of a second referendum as they appear to be.
2016 - This will be the easiest deal in history
2019 - We've set up a fund so people don't start dying en masse
Baldseagull
Well-known member
The Telegraph is quoting David Cameron saying that leave risks the breakdown of the separate agreement the UK and France have, to allow border checks on people on the other side of the channel. It takes the 50,000 figure from the former head of UK border agency, who also says this is a realistic concern, as the benefits are largely Britains and has done nothing to reduce the problem for the French of refugees camping out near ports. It quotes "a senior source" interpretation that we would see camps of asylum seekers on this side of the border, which is just plain daft.
The 500,000 rise in unemployment was predicted as occurring over the course of a year by the Treasury, not immediately, and a similar forecast was made by Credit Suisse and another by BlackRock soon after the referendum result.
Baldseagull
Well-known member
No, I guess you don't like mine either, so what?
JC Footy Genius
Bringer of TRUTH
- Jun 9, 2015
- 10,568
Oh come along now .... Cameron/the remain campaign were playing on fears of hordes of immigrants decamping to Kent. Even with all the hysteria surrounding a no deal I note no one is suggesting this will happen now.
This paper focuses on the immediate economic impact of a vote to leave and the two years that follow .... The analysis in this document comes to a clear central conclusion: a vote to leave would represent an immediate and profound shock to our economy. That shock would push our economy into a recession and lead to an increase in unemployment of around 500,000
https://assets.publishing.service.g...ate_economic_impact_of_leaving_the_eu_web.pdf
Yes others made similar woefully inaccurate claims ... including you.
JC Footy Genius
Bringer of TRUTH
- Jun 9, 2015
- 10,568
Amusing to see all the 'positive feedback' [MENTION=35289]Baker lite[/MENTION] is getting. To be fair most of his contributions are very funny and exactly the right counterpoint to numerous pompous posters who take themselves far too seriously.
Lincoln Imp
Well-known member
- Feb 2, 2009
- 5,964
It's not me using words such as 'specifically' or 'entirely'. It's you. Irrespective of any other factors at play, putting at serious risk free trade deals with countries that cover two-thirds of our global trade will see thousands of jobs being lost. If you want to deny that jobs are being lost, fine. And if you want to say that I have claimed no other factors ever exist, that's fine too.
However, if you want to claim (as you do) that there is some kind of similarity between the unpleasant anti-immigrant rhetoric of Leave campaigners wanting to scare the wits out of voters with lies about unstoppable millions-strong floods of far-away foreigners turning up on our shores as of right with a suggestion that an agreement with the French government for British officials to carry out immigration checks in Calais might come to an end - meaning that they would have to be checked in Dover - then all I can do is repeat the comments of another poster to one of your points. "Is that all you've got? Really?" (The 50,000 figure didn't even come from the Remain campaign as far as I can see.)
You ask me whether I believed the claim about an immediate 500,000 extra unemployed. I'm not the best person to ask because my primary reason for wanting to stay in the European Union is not economic. I'm sure the claim was made, but I don't actually recall it - I was (and am) deeply concerned about the economic effect of Brexit but the issue of whether disaster will strike next week or next year didn't seem to be the main issue. I do remember Osborn's claim about a special budget though: it was distasteful in hindsigh but whether it led to more people voting Remain than Leave's suggestion that every family in the country would be £200 a month better off I really don't know. The admission by the director of Vote Leave that the bus claim was the most effective lie of the whole campaign is an interesting one in this context.