[Albion] Away tickets - name checks - including 1901

[drew]

Surely if the aim is to prevent harvesting and fans are missing out then a system where if you buy a ticket and circumstances change you can return it (up to say 24 hours before KO) and get a refund.

Someone else can then buy the ticket and earn points for attending.

Agree with this but would add the caveat that you only get the money back if the ticket is sold. Most will be but what we don't want is people buying tickets for matches unsure whether they will go and then the club getting masses of tickets back a day before the match.

 

[ac gull]

Suspect we are waiting on all clubs away tickets to be digital only - return system will only really work at that point

 

[Giraffe]

On the point of this perceived closed shop by the way I just don't accept that is a reality. If you want to be in tier 1 you just need to go to a lot of games. My wife got a season ticket 4 years ago, she was already going to quite a lot of away games so continued with that and got in tier 1 quite quickly. Conversely she went to less last season and has now dropped to tier 2. There will always be movement in between the tiers for different reasons, but fundamentally if you get a season ticket and do the hard miles you'll get into the top tier in 3-4 seasons from a zero start.

 

[Wilka]

Out of interest has anyone actually ever been stopped and I.D checked at random? I did all but one away game in the league last season and the only place I saw ID checks take place was Wolves away.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

On the point of this perceived closed shop by the way I just don't accept that is a reality. If you want to be in tier 1 you just need to go to a lot of games. My wife got a season ticket 4 years ago, she was already going to quite a lot of away games so continued with that and got in tier 1 quite quickly. Conversely she went to less last season and has now dropped to tier 2. There will always be movement in between the tiers for different reasons, but fundamentally if you get a season ticket and do the hard miles you'll get into the top tier in 3-4 seasons from a zero start.

I do not think anyone is saying it is a closed shop, clearly it is not as others have also mentioned they have got into tier 1. More that moving up the tiers is harder, and less fair, if people are able to harvest points by buying tickets and allowing others to use them. Maybe this is less of an issue than we think, but I struggle to understand why anyone would complain with the principle of the club trying to stop this?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Surely if the aim is to prevent harvesting and fans are missing out then a system where if you buy a ticket and circumstances change you can return it (up to say 24 hours before KO) and get a refund.

Someone else can then buy the ticket and earn points for attending.

In theory, yes. Maybe with the additional tweak of a maximum number of times you can do this; to prevent people from buying tickets ‘just in case’ they can go. Also, refunds only made if the ticket re sells.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

On the point of this perceived closed shop by the way I just don't accept that is a reality. If you want to be in tier 1 you just need to go to a lot of games. My wife got a season ticket 4 years ago, she was already going to quite a lot of away games so continued with that and got in tier 1 quite quickly. Conversely she went to less last season and has now dropped to tier 2. There will always be movement in between the tiers for different reasons, but fundamentally if you get a season ticket and do the hard miles you'll get into the top tier in 3-4 seasons from a zero start.

I don't think there has to be a "closed shop" for there to be a problem.
If you're the person who logs on to find the last ticket was sold just before you had a chance to look, then it's a problem for you (if there were people shuffling tickets around their friends).

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

How many games is that actually an issue though? Bournemouth and Luton next season. Europe will be a big unknown but everyone is fearing the worst. Most other games get to member sale don't they?

When I returned to football I started on zero points. I'm now season ticket priority 1 going to 4 or 5 away games a season. Don't think there has been a game I haven't been able to get a ticket for in that time. I appreciate not everyone is in front of a computer all day but I really don't think the problem is as big as the club is making out or a big an issue as people on here are making about "harvesting points".

Incidentally for all those people who are annoyed about "harvesters" don't join the England Travel Club. You have to scan your ticket for home games to get the point/cap. I've seen people scan multiple tickets going in, people going in and walking straight back out. Most qualifiers/friendlies the "home" section is half empty for the second half. Away games are slightly different but the recent game away to Malta there were maybe 700 people left in the ground (out of a sold out 4k) with 10 minutes to go when we left.



So it might of done, again I really don't see the problem of that happening (yes I know it's illegal to resell tickets - but it's about as illegal as speeding). If someone acts up who you've given your ticket to then you are responsible for their actions. Same with home games when you can buy guest tickets.

All the London games. Midlands as well. Maybe some of the bigger Northern ones this coming season as well because of people trying to up their points totals for Europe.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

On the point of this perceived closed shop by the way I just don't accept that is a reality. If you want to be in tier 1 you just need to go to a lot of games. My wife got a season ticket 4 years ago, she was already going to quite a lot of away games so continued with that and got in tier 1 quite quickly. Conversely she went to less last season and has now dropped to tier 2. There will always be movement in between the tiers for different reasons, but fundamentally if you get a season ticket and do the hard miles you'll get into the top tier in 3-4 seasons from a zero start.

And if people attend all the games for which they buy tickets then nobody has any issue with that. If people buy and don’t attend which keeps their points topped up and that enables them to buy a ticket for a high demand game over someone in the next tier down then that’s the closed shop in operation.

 

[Giraffe]

I do not think anyone is saying it is a closed shop, clearly it is not as others have also mentioned they have got into tier 1. More that moving up the tiers is harder, and less fair, if people are able to harvest points by buying tickets and allowing others to use them. Maybe this is less of an issue than we think, but I struggle to understand why anyone would complain with the principle of the club trying to stop this?

Okay my issue with it is as follows:

I buy a ticket in good faith (approximately 4-6 weeks ahead of the game). Something happens, family stuff, illness, work, which means I can no longer go. That ticket now becomes redundant, an empty seat. In the old days I'd have passed to another Albion fan, often for nothing, and they would have enjoyed the day.

I totally get the point of the harvesting but I suspect the scenario above is more common than the harvesting, and the net consequence is less Albion fans go the match.

If they can set up an away ticket exchange I'd be happy with the current situation.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Okay my issue with it is as follows:

I buy a ticket in good faith (approximately 4-6 weeks ahead of the game). Something happens, family stuff, illness, work, which means I can no longer go. That ticket now becomes redundant, an empty seat. In the old days I'd have passed to another Albion fan, often for nothing, and they would have enjoyed the day.

I totally get the point of the harvesting but I suspect the scenario above is more common than the harvesting, and the net consequence is less Albion fans go the match.

If they can set up an away ticket exchange I'd be happy with the current situation.

I hear you, but being able to hand over a ticket to a friend in good faith is open to abuse not only by other less scrupulous fans but also professional touts. I do agree the club should somehow facilitate returns though...and this would surely placate all arguments agaoinst the current system. The football world does need to wake up to 21st century ticketing to do this; it is difficult with paper tickets and snail male. It's baffling why they still persist with this in the EPL.

 

[Wardy's twin]

The Bournemouth game (I was one of the few who bought a ticket and actually went) was a different scenario. The pricing and point allocation made it an obvious exercise for some to buy a ticket and simply not use it, thereby "harvesting" the points to help keep up their priority position for future games.

The bigger issue the club are looking to address is the informal sharing of away tickets, which created a closed shop for access to tickets for in-demand games.

Fan A to Fan B: Are you going to <fixture>? I don't have enough points to buy a ticket but I'd like to go.
Fan B: No, I can't go - you can have my ticket if you want.

Fan A is happy as he gets to go to a game he can't otherwise get to, and fan B is happy because he gets the benefit of the loyalty points, helping to maintain his high priority position. Fans C-Z are unhappy as they didn't get a chance to buy a ticket, and are unable to progress through the priority tiers.

I'd say, anecdotally, a LOT of this went on and I think the club's new process pretty much stopped it overnight, as there's a big risk now involved in passing on an away ticket, and most aren't prepared to take that risk.

Ironically at Bournemouth away last year a group were joking with a fan asking him whose ticket was he using this time.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Out of interest has anyone actually ever been stopped and I.D checked at random? I did all but one away game in the league last season and the only place I saw ID checks take place was Wolves away.

Didn't Dick Knight get stopped and got quite upset when asked to show proof?

 

[albionalex]

Okay my issue with it is as follows:

I buy a ticket in good faith (approximately 4-6 weeks ahead of the game). Something happens, family stuff, illness, work, which means I can no longer go. That ticket now becomes redundant, an empty seat. In the old days I'd have passed to another Albion fan, often for nothing, and they would have enjoyed the day.

I totally get the point of the harvesting but I suspect the scenario above is more common than the harvesting, and the net consequence is less Albion fans go the match.

If they can set up an away ticket exchange I'd be happy with the current situation.

I guess the question is, what happens more frequently; someone buys a ticket and then can no longer go? or someone buys a ticket with no intention of going and sells/passes the ticket on to get the loyalty points?

 

[Bozza]

Okay my issue with it is as follows:

I buy a ticket in good faith (approximately 4-6 weeks ahead of the game). Something happens, family stuff, illness, work, which means I can no longer go. That ticket now becomes redundant, an empty seat. In the old days I'd have passed to another Albion fan, often for nothing, and they would have enjoyed the day.

I totally get the point of the harvesting but I suspect the scenario above is more common than the harvesting, and the net consequence is less Albion fans go the match.

If they can set up an away ticket exchange I'd be happy with the current situation.

I don't think you'll find anyone who disagrees, either inside or outside the club.

The problem is the logistics of that when the majority of away tickets are still physical.

The original purchaser would need to get the ticket back to the club in good time to facilitate a sale and redistribution. Given our shonky postal system, that's actually quite a long period of time to do so with confidence.

It's not possible, as it stands, for the club to simply cancel the ticket already in circulation and issue another one to a new buyer, as they don't have another ticket in hand to do that with. They are provided with a set of pre-printed, specifically-numbered ticketing stock from the host club.

When e-ticketing comes into play across the board, as it surely will in the near future, then I would fully expect an away ticket exchange to come into force. Until that time, I don't think it's reasonable to expect one.

 

[The Mole]

Because the club doesn’t take up its full share of away tickets - it is becoming increasingly hard gor those of us who only attend away games to go to matches. I suspect i may only get to one or two matches next season (assuming there isn’t a huge interest in going to places like turf moor!)

It is a tough one to find a resolution to - I guess a price of our success - never a problem when we were in the lower divisions!

 

[Giraffe]

When e-ticketing comes into play across the board, as it surely will in the near future, then I would fully expect an away ticket exchange to come into force. Until that time, I don't think it's reasonable to expect one.

I agree with that and understand the issues of doing it, just think as a result the current policy is a sledgehammer to crack a nut with the negatives outweighing the benefits. I suspect it was targeted at a certain group who were also acting like idiots at games.

If I was to highlight a real problem at away games it would be drug taking, not this. Anyone else seen the regular queue by 16-20 year olds for cubicles in the gents when there are plenty of urinals free. They either all have stomach issues, are shy or they are taking drugs. I know what my money is on.

 

[El Presidente]

Given that the club does not take up the full allocation of away tickets for some fixtures (and I fully understand why they don't givent that they have to pay for them) then it seems inconsistent with the claim that fans are harvesting points.

We are not Manchester United or Liverpool, or even Everton or The Leeds United, where every away ticket is hugely sought after, as plenty of matches are not sold out.

I had a few matches that I could not attend last season due to personal circumstances, and for Wembley ended up in hospitality. On all occasions the seats went unoccupied. Without the 'new' rules on all occasions the tickets would have been used by Albion fans. According to the club this is presumably a good thing as otherwise why would they have such a policy?

 

[Superphil]

How many 1901 members are buying up all these tickets and then passing them on to people? I think this change is in response to the previous criticism that 1901 members could buy tickets and pass them to anyone they liked, as was vented by many people when the "names on away tickets" started. The club has now taken action to stop this.

As has been said many times, who is going to risk a half a season ban by giving an away ticket to a twat, or a tout? In my experience, there are many 1901 members who regularly go to away games, because that is what fans do, there are many fans in 1901, possibly more than there are 'corporate', much to the club's dislike.

Are those with a stack of corporate tickets really buying (batches of) away tickets? Wouldn't have thought so unless they are going to the games, and again, they are not going to risk the embarrassment of passing tickets to twats and getting their company name banned.

Then again, there are some idiots out there.

 

[Bozza]

I agree with that and understand the issues of doing it, just think as a result the current policy is a sledgehammer to crack a nut with the negatives outweighing the benefits. I suspect it was targeted at a certain group who were also acting like idiots at games.

I imagine the club would have no great issue with the scenario you describe - buy with genuine intent to go, life gets in the way, passing the ticket on so it doesn't go to waste.

The problem is there is absolutely no way of identifying those genuine cases from those where the ticket is bought with no intent to go, handing it over to someone else who would not otherwise qualify and banking the loyalty points as a nice little side bonus.

Anyone could say "I was going to go to the game, but XXXXX came up, so I gave the ticket to my mate so the seat didn't end up empty".

The changes made are clearly a massive pain in the arse for the club to operate - writing names on up to 3,000 tickets per game and sending our own club ticketing staff to each game. I'm sure they'd rather not do it.

But they are doing it because they feel it improves away ticketing, making it fairer for all fans.