Is that still going on. Did you know that Alex Salmon works for Russian Television?
Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊
[Politics] Brexit
- Thread starter KingstonSeagull
- Start date
Is that still going on. Did you know that Alex Salmon works for Russian Television?
vegster
Sanity Clause
- May 5, 2008
- 27,902
He's been on my ignore list for months, he has nothing to contribute except hate and division.
maltaseagull
Well-known member
How so?
Surely, you must know that, according to the majority on NSC, the "Tory Scum" are to blame for everything wrong with the world and if we do get relegated this season, that too will be their fault!
Yes, extraordinary, from the Conservative and Unionist party. It can mean only one thing. Incompetance; surely the tories wouldn't be so venal as to jettison Scotland, where until recently, the nation returned 50+ labour MPs?
That said I think Blair lit the fuse by allowing devolution, albeit I'm not sure what option he had.
I find it sad that, although the blue wall of sounthern tory seats count for nothing when labour is in power, and the red wall of northern and urban labour seats count for nothing when the tories are in power, folk seem now unwilling to accept this, and favour the break up of the UK (and who knows what after - 'north' 'south' separation?).
To return to the OP's question, break up of the UK would benefit England. The jocks would suffer but, rather like the extreme end of our Brexiters, would regard this as a price worth paying. The Welsh would suffer (and I suspect would not vote to split). The Ulstermen can sod off, since they have been soaking the British taxpayer for decades, just to prop up their 18th century sectarianism. None of the newly liberated nations would be allowed back into the EU 'just like that' so we could have open borders with the jocks while they stew in their own juices.
LamieRobertson
Not awoke
It’s ok you can still be part of the UK if you want
Green Cross Code Man
Wunt be druv
The bizarre thing with the Scots is that many have always wanted more decision making for Scotland made in Scotland - hence devolution and ever more power handed over from London - and rightly so IMHO. Yet if they go independent they will attempt to join the EU ?
I agree. I, for one am not opposed to Scottish independence but cannot understand why Sturgeon isn't asked this simple question more often. In fact I don't recall her ever having to answer. It is a huge inconsistency in the argument.
Surely, you must know that, according to the majority on NSC, the "Tory Scum" are to blame for everything wrong with the world and if we do get relegated this season, that too will be their fault!
I can assure you that [MENTION=236]Papa Lazarou[/MENTION] is not red in tooth and claw.
Imagine you want a playground for the kids in your local community, so that they have something to do if their phones, tablets, VR helmets and benzodiazepines are unavailable for some reason.
Anywhere between one million years ago and 500 years ago, you either just build it or go ask your village elder "hi I want to build ze playground and you can agree or die." The village elder says yes, you collect the material and you build the playground in one week or so and the kids play.
Go back a 100 years ago or a little more, you can still do it but in some instances you might want to ask your local council first. Or the king/queen. Most likely any of these would say "yes go do whatever the **** you want as long as you stay peaceful and pay your taxes". You might do it or there might be some local building firm who'd do it according to your instructions. In that case it might take a month or something. The kids play.
Jump forward to today. You a playground. You manage to get 1000 or 10 000 or so people to sign a list where they say "we want a playground on in the western part of the eastern parts of South Northshire". Local council debates it for a year, come to the conclusion that "yes we got enough money from the government to be able to do this".
But first they need to to do archeological digging to see if someone farted there 2000 years ago, maybe change some zoning stuff, maybe measure if the laughters from the playground would distburb the people living 500 meters away. After ten years or so, if you are lucky, you might get your playground. Will the playground be how you want it to be? No. It needs to be designed by some playground expert who knows how to follow the 10 000 safety regulations, and it will be built by Global Playgrounds Inc., some American company based in Cayman Islands who employs Latvian slaves to construct your playground with materials stolen in Africa. You get your playground. But it took ten years and is it really yours?
There are a lot of pro-EU, pro-standardisation, pro-regulate-everything-except-business, pro-state power people who cant fathom why this development is making people seriously starved for any type of power or influence in their own lives. "Why u no want your life decided in Washington, Brussels or London..? They good."
But as long as the powers that be dont crush these independence movements with force or some other way, they are going to grow. And the those who are pro-supranationalism - more power to the FN/EU/WHO/IMF/whatever - could either stand by the sideline and watch the independence movements grow while saying "why u so mad and weird?" or they could join in and try to find the best ways of giving back power to the people in a peaceful and thought through manner, because as it stands, they are going to find themselves very lonely on the sidelines in the not to distant future. People dont necessarily want "break-ups", they want some control over their lives/communities.
Anywhere between one million years ago and 500 years ago, you either just build it or go ask your village elder "hi I want to build ze playground and you can agree or die." The village elder says yes, you collect the material and you build the playground in one week or so and the kids play.
Go back a 100 years ago or a little more, you can still do it but in some instances you might want to ask your local council first. Or the king/queen. Most likely any of these would say "yes go do whatever the **** you want as long as you stay peaceful and pay your taxes". You might do it or there might be some local building firm who'd do it according to your instructions. In that case it might take a month or something. The kids play.
Jump forward to today. You a playground. You manage to get 1000 or 10 000 or so people to sign a list where they say "we want a playground on in the western part of the eastern parts of South Northshire". Local council debates it for a year, come to the conclusion that "yes we got enough money from the government to be able to do this".
But first they need to to do archeological digging to see if someone farted there 2000 years ago, maybe change some zoning stuff, maybe measure if the laughters from the playground would distburb the people living 500 meters away. After ten years or so, if you are lucky, you might get your playground. Will the playground be how you want it to be? No. It needs to be designed by some playground expert who knows how to follow the 10 000 safety regulations, and it will be built by Global Playgrounds Inc., some American company based in Cayman Islands who employs Latvian slaves to construct your playground with materials stolen in Africa. You get your playground. But it took ten years and is it really yours?
There are a lot of pro-EU, pro-standardisation, pro-regulate-everything-except-business, pro-state power people who cant fathom why this development is making people seriously starved for any type of power or influence in their own lives. "Why u no want your life decided in Washington, Brussels or London..? They good."
But as long as the powers that be dont crush these independence movements with force or some other way, they are going to grow. And the those who are pro-supranationalism - more power to the FN/EU/WHO/IMF/whatever - could either stand by the sideline and watch the independence movements grow while saying "why u so mad and weird?" or they could join in and try to find the best ways of giving back power to the people in a peaceful and thought through manner, because as it stands, they are going to find themselves very lonely on the sidelines in the not to distant future. People dont necessarily want "break-ups", they want some control over their lives/communities.
Not Andy Naylor
Well-known member
It might be good on a local level, but if you believe that the UK/GB/England should be a world power then it isn't. The main reason is that our place as a permanent member of the UN Security Council is in the name of the United Kingdom. It is almost certain that England alone would not keep that place. Russia would love to have one fewer permanent member, as it would increase its own influence, why is why it worked so hard behind the scenes to make sure Brexit happened and to get Boris Johnson elected. Oddly enough, our only supporter in that scenario would be France, who would realise that they would be next in the Kremlin's sights.
Yes, Russia kept the Soviet Union's permanent membership after the breakup of the USSR, but it would have been fairly difficult to argue that they were not still deserving of a place. England by itself would have a harder time making a case when larger countries such as India are excluded.
This isn't my big idea, by the way, but what I've heard from people I know on foreign desks of papers and a few contacts in the diplomatic service.
Mo Gosfield
Well-known member
- Aug 11, 2010
- 6,293
Just to put the respective GDP's of the UK in perspective.
England.....2.83 Trillion
Scotland....170 Billion
Wales..........73 Billion
NI................27 Billion
The ten smallest countries in the EU ( Malta, Cyprus, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Slovenia, Slovakia, Croatia, Bulgaria, Luxembourg ) have a combined GDP of 425 Billion and contribute 2.6% to the EU economy. The three home nations would contribute 270 Billion, which would represent 1.6% of the EU economy.
They would also have to satisfy EU demands on trade deficit size ( up to 3% permitted )
England.....2.83 Trillion
Scotland....170 Billion
Wales..........73 Billion
NI................27 Billion
The ten smallest countries in the EU ( Malta, Cyprus, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Slovenia, Slovakia, Croatia, Bulgaria, Luxembourg ) have a combined GDP of 425 Billion and contribute 2.6% to the EU economy. The three home nations would contribute 270 Billion, which would represent 1.6% of the EU economy.
They would also have to satisfy EU demands on trade deficit size ( up to 3% permitted )
vegster
Sanity Clause
- May 5, 2008
- 27,902
Well, if things go badly for a country who should shoulder the blame then, the successive Tory Governments since 2008 or ? Is it the EU who are responsible for rising poverty and under investment in the NHS, education and local councils?Surely, you must know that, according to the majority on NSC, the "Tory Scum" are to blame for everything wrong with the world and if we do get relegated this season, that too will be their fault!
The Tories are excellent at imposing cuts to services and benefits that never affect themselves or their voters. Constantly they like to label British workers lazy and inefficient yet we seem to work the longest hours for the worst pay with the least benefits and the most health problems. ... So, who is to blame?
LamieRobertson
Not awoke
...and an argument against ..another level of bureaucracy
maltaseagull
Well-known member
The electorate?
But of course everything was crying out for a massive spending spree in 2010 when some Labour support switched sides.
Green Cross Code Man
Wunt be druv
Correct, and this is also a difficult fact for Sturgeon to swallow. For Scotland, let alone any other home nation on its own to join the EU, it would require a volte-face from Madrid. Can't see that happening anytime soon.
He pretty much did, and you would have won your bet. Makes me laugh how he basically writes so much and says virtually nothing. Just a lite-fairy wearing the emperors new clothes.
I initially thought that but isn’t one of the policies of the SNP to rid the country of Nuclear Weapons?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Dick Swiveller
Well-known member
- Sep 9, 2011
- 9,163
I notice you have given the pejorative misogyny of a left wing politician a free pass.
Tom Hark Preston Park
Will Post For Cash
- Jul 6, 2003
- 70,337
For sure. Tho I suspect the harsh economic realities of the thing might lead to that particular policy being quietly dropped
So you keep saying, I don’t understand your obsession of repetitively telling everyone so, it’s very weird!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro