[Albion] NEW: Barber on Hughton, and our big signings.

[Icy Gull]

The issue I have is that fans aren't saying:
'I wonder if there's a better option, someone who can take the club further'
'I think it would be great if we could attract xxxxx, as I believe he'll be able to do better with the squad we have'.

Instead they say things like:
'He's got to go'
'He's lost the dressing room'
'He's been found out'
and other dull cliches that aren't based on reality.

It's fine to think there might be a better option, and offer sensible comment on who that could be, with evidence of what they've achieved with a similar budget, but if you start just talking shit, people are going to comment on that.

As things stand, he's beaten the odds (60/40) by keeping us up for the first two seasons, despite a relatively low budget. If you know of better managers that you think would want to come here, by all means say so. Maybe Wagner - he did well didn't he.

Yeah because all Arsenal fans knew Wenger was THE man and Liverpool fans obviously KNEW without a doubt that Klopp was the man to bring back the good times

If you have to be able to name THE manager before you can suggest a change might be a good idea very few clubs would have fans calling for the current incumbents head

You really are an arrogant, condescending and argumentative poster aren’t you?

You should take a leaf out of Chailey’s book when dismissing other fans views and back it up with a few indisputable FACTS.

 

[Boys 9d]

Ipswich fans of course really had their fingers on the Pulse!

 

[Triggaaar]

Wow. From this, you're expecting NSC posters to not only know when is the right time to move a manager on, but also who the right replacement will be. In short, you expect them to be privy to the same amount of information as Bloom, Barber and perhaps one or two others on the board. You're setting the bar too high.

No, that's not what I said. Sure, some of them may feel they have a good suggestion to make, but I also said that those who are unconvinced by Hughton could simply say they'd hope we can find someone better able to take us forward, and pose the question to the forum. Instead what many are doing is just saying 'he's got to go' etc, when, like you say, they don't have any of the information on who we could replace him with.

 

[Triggaaar]

Yeah because all Arsenal fans knew Wenger was THE man and Liverpool fans obviously KNEW without a doubt that Klopp was the man to bring back the good times

As above, that was one example, I didn't say you had to be able to.

You really are an arrogant, condescending and argumentative poster aren’t you?

For saying that I disagree with those that just say 'Hughton has to go'? Ok.

 

[Icy Gull]

As above, that was one example, I didn't say you had to be able to.

For saying that I disagree with those that just say 'Hughton has to go'? Ok.

It’s the dismissive way you do it

 

[the right footed denilson]

The issue I have is that fans aren't saying:
'I wonder if there's a better option, someone who can take the club further'
'I think it would be great if we could attract xxxxx, as I believe he'll be able to do better with the squad we have'.

Instead they say things like:
'He's got to go'
'He's lost the dressing room'
'He's been found out'
and other dull cliches that aren't based on reality.

I'm not sure about all this.
Most of the stuff I've been reading is very much 'thanks Chris but it's time to move on'.
Lots of people are quick to retaliate to any suggestion of a new manager with 'but who would YOU choose?', 'who would so a better job than CH?'. Well, the reality it's not our job to to have an answer to those questions, but we are totally entitled to the nagging feeling that there are people around who might take us forward in a more progressive manner.

There's also a strange arrogant loyalty about all this- nobody can do/be better than CH. If that is the case, why aren't top clubs after him. Do you honestly think he is the best manager in World football we could afford/attract?!

 

[Triggaaar]

It’s the dismissive way you do it

Personally I think Hughton has done a good job for the club. That's not to say it's impossible for him to ever be replaced, but it does mean that when people make up nonsense like 'he's lost the dressing room', then yes, I'm going to be quite dismissive of their opinion. If they need a more delicate rebuttal then perhaps they should be more delicate with their criticisms of Chris in the first place.

 

[Triggaaar]

I'm not sure about all this.
Most of the stuff I've been reading is very much 'thanks Chris but it's time to move on'.

Yes there has been gratitude from some, along with the request that he now leaves.

Lots of people are quick to retaliate to any suggestion of a new manager with 'but who would YOU choose?', 'who would so a better job than CH?'. Well, the reality it's not our job to to have an answer to those questions

No it's not our job, but still, that is the crux of it. IMO the reality is that no manger is providing exciting and successful PL football on a budget. I believe it's short sighted to just demand he leaves, given that he's currently succeeding, when none of us seem to know of a better option. If Mr Bloom finds a better option, then there will be a change. Until then, the evidence appears to be that the top level of our club also can't come up with a better option.

but we are totally entitled to the nagging feeling that there are people around who might take us forward in a more progressive manner.

And IMO you can express that feeling with phrases like 'I feel we should be able to find a manager who can take us forward in a more progressive manner', rather than 'he's got to go'.

There's also a strange arrogant loyalty about all this- nobody can do/be better than CH. If that is the case, why aren't top clubs after him. Do you honestly think he is the best manager in World football we could afford/attract?!

The top clubs aren't after him because they can attract better managers than him. Maybe we'll also attract a better manager at some point. But I'm not sure that the ones that are definitely better for our club in the PL are willing to join us right now. Others that might do better, like Frank de Boer, are a gamble, and I imagine Bloom would rather not risk our PL status on an unknown manager.

 

[Icy Gull]

Personally I think Hughton has done a good job for the club. That's not to say it's impossible for him to ever be replaced, but it does mean that when people make up nonsense like 'he's lost the dressing room', then yes, I'm going to be quite dismissive of their opinion. If they need a more delicate rebuttal then perhaps they should be more delicate with their criticisms of Chris in the first place.

In fairness the rumours at the time and the way we performed against Saints, Bournemouth and Cardiff gave weight to the lost the dressing room comments.. Discord on the pitch, body language of the players and our inability to do anything that made us look remotely competitive once we went a goal down made the “lost the dressing room” comments a possibility.

Turned out to be wrong but football is an emotive game and it’s easy in retrospect to throw it back in fans faces.

Things were definitely not right during that period for whatever reason.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Ipswich fans of course really had their fingers on the Pulse!

One of the good guys I work with is an Ipswich fan and a proper football fan (i.e supports his local team, goes to games etc). He was livid when they got rid of McCarthy and told me he was one reason they'd been doing as well as they had. The other reason was they had one or two decent players up front..........who they got rid of

The lesson for us from Ipswich can only be don't get rid of the manager AND all the good players at once. If we were to bin off CH and also Dunk, Duffy, Ryan, Gross and Bernardo at the same time, well, we're doomed. But we won't. That's pretty much what PB is saying. We DO however need to be able to take a financial loss on our failures and not treat CH as a sacred cow.

 

[chaileyjem]

And we only drew that one, against a relegation threatened Championship team.

yes. WE KNOW. Come off it JRB - this was one of the games of the season.
I bloody loved it. I bet you did too

 

[Triggaaar]

In fairness the rumours at the time and the way we performed against Saints, Bournemouth and Cardiff gave weight to the lost the dressing room comments

I disagree. What exactly was the source of these 'rumours'?

Discord on the pitch, body language of the players and our inability to do anything that made us look remotely competitive once we went a goal down made the “lost the dressing room” comments a possibility.

I disagree. In my opinion the players lost confidence and were fed up with the way the games were going etc. It's no surprise the body language was bad.

Turned out to be wrong

Like I said at the time.

but football is an emotive game and it’s easy in retrospect to throw it back in fans faces.

No, I threw it in their faces at the time, not in retrospect.

Things were definitely not right during that period for whatever reason.

Yeah, we were losing.

 

[chaileyjem]

We DO however need to be able to take a financial loss on our failures and not treat CH as a sacred cow.

Sounds like club are prepared to be patient with some of the big signings, unless i'm reading that wrong (Ali J, Locadia ?) although i guess that depends on offers.
PS: No chance of CH being a sacred cow on here.

 

[Icy Gull]

I disagree. What exactly was the source of these 'rumours'?

I disagree. In my opinion the players lost confidence and were fed up with the way the games were going etc. It's no surprise the body language was bad.

Like I said at the time.
No, I threw it in their faces at the time, not in retrospect.

Yeah, we were losing.

We’ll have to agree to differ I think the problems went far deeper than “yeah, we were losing”

The team over that period was not the team it should have been given the importance of the matches. These are not rookie players, they have been through tough times over the last three years, the performances STANK and I do not accept that it was just because we were losing.

We’ll never know but that does not mean there was nothing in the rumours about player discord with the manager.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

Locadia, sure - he's been here 1.5 seasons and grumbled to the press.

The 'or two' is far from obvious and there are potentially others who fit the bill - Montoya, Balogun, Steele. Not cut and dried, really.

I am not sure what the issue with Montoya and balogun is...Montoya is a decent fullback and balogun won't get in with dunk and Duffy and big Dan!

 

[Bold Seagull]

We’ll have to agree to differ I think the problems went far deeper than “yeah, we were losing”

The team over that period was not the team it should have been given the importance of the matches. These are not rookie players, they have been through tough times over the last three years, the performances STANK and I do not accept that it was just because we were losing.

We’ll never know but that does not mean there was nothing in the rumours about player discord with the manager.

I never felt he’d lost the dressing room though. Yes a siesmic loss of confidence and form from several players at the same time, but I didn’t really see anyone who didn’t care, or had given up. Loss of a dressing room manifests itself more when you can see a distinct lack of effort, I can’t say we saw that. I’m sure there was plenty of discord and unrest in the dressing, you’d be shocked if there wasn’t in a run like that, different from a manager losing the dressing though, and in hindsight we can clearly see that wasn’t the case.

 

[Rugrat]

We’ll have to agree to differ I think the problems went far deeper than “yeah, we were losing”

The team over that period was not the team it should have been given the importance of the matches. These are not rookie players, they have been through tough times over the last three years, the performances STANK and I do not accept that it was just because we were losing.

We’ll never know but that does not mean there was nothing in the rumours about player discord with the manager.

The problem is there's no right and wrong to this argument, it's largely a subjective one. Nobody has a crystal ball no matter how much anyone protests they 'know' the outcome of keeping him or binning him (same with most Managers)

Could Pulis or Moyes do a better job? Unlikely. Could Klopp or Guardiola do a better job? Probably. Of course others will argue that they can't with our current squad but then that pretty well negates the value of any Manager

Only fact is none of us know if a change will be for the better or worse, we just have our instincts ...... rather like Brexit

 

[Johnny RoastBeef]

yes. WE KNOW. Come off it JRB - this was one of the games of the season.
I bloody loved it. I bet you did too

No, they ran out of pies, it was bloody freezing and those Millwall fans were potty mouths.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The issue I have is that fans aren't saying:
'I wonder if there's a better option, someone who can take the club further'
'I think it would be great if we could attract xxxxx, as I believe he'll be able to do better with the squad we have'.

Instead they say things like:
'He's got to go'
'He's lost the dressing room'
'He's been found out'
and other dull cliches that aren't based on reality.

It's fine to think there might be a better option, and offer sensible comment on who that could be, with evidence of what they've achieved with a similar budget, but if you start just talking shit, people are going to comment on that.

As things stand, he's beaten the odds (60/40) by keeping us up for the first two seasons, despite a relatively low budget. If you know of better managers that you think would want to come here, by all means say so. Maybe Wagner - he did well didn't he.

Unfortunately the sort blokes down the pub who you ignore (we even have some of these in The Albion and the 3 Tuns) are busy posting hysterical thoughtless rubbish on NSC. Fortunately, only about 10% of people who post on here are idiots. But they do post an awful lot.

Fortunately I have 80% of them on ignore. The Nobhead and the old Boots are two I'm glad I no longer have to read (judging by the relentless withering rebuttals from the sane elements on here).

Some very good and balanced comments on this thread which I have greatly enjoyed reading. It is reassuring to see so many smart people with a brain and a heart that work.

 

[Seasidesage]

I suspect it has been considered. Tony will have thought to himself 'would we do better with another manager', and come to the conclusion that we wouldn't.

Which is fair enough its his money, but he needs to change the dynamic in a different way then as we will need to change something to survive IMO