Consumption Rooms

[Hotchilidog]

At the moment the main losers of the current drug regime are the general public through the associated crime that comes with prohibition. Drug users (many of whom have other issues to deal with too) also suffer health problems. You then also have a massive amount of recreational users who have a good time on drugs. All the while the demand for drugs causes problems in their country of origin, look at the problems created in Afghanistan, mexico and Colombia to see how devasting this industry is. Drug crime causes misery in the fiefdoms of the drug lords.

The only beneficiaries of the current drug situation are organised criminals. By maintaining the status quo you are only shoring up the biggest criminal business on the planet and making violent a-holes extremely rich. I find it astonishing that the public and governments are happy for this ridiculous situation to continue without being willing to at least entertain the possibility of a debate on changing the way things are.

 

[Hotchilidog]

Great post, absolutely the way I see the situation too. We recently had an epetition with more than 100,000 votes to review drug legislation so there will be a debate in parliament, whether it makes a difference remains to be seen.

Well played Caroline Lucas for at least getting MP's to debate the issue.

 

[BBassic]

Isn't just a case of natural selection, those that are stupid enough to use drugs, fail and die and those that don't go on and survive and reproducing another generation.
The problem comes is when these people survive and then reproduce themselves to breed more drug addicts,
Hence breeding not so strong people and a decline in the human race.
Gross stereotyping I know, but you get the idea.

Are you actually suggesting that drug abuse is hereditary? At a genetic level?

I'll grant that a child brought up in those sort of circumstances could be more likely to end up in that same life but that's their surroundings not their DNA.

 

[Garage_Doors]

I'll grant that a child brought up in those sort of circumstances could be more likely to end up in that same life but that's their surroundings not their DNA.

Exactly that, children brought up into a drug use environment are a more likely to have the same lifestyle.

 

[Uncle C]

What does the C in Uncle C stand for?

If only you'd been the first to try that joke it may have raised a smile.

 

[The Merry Prankster]

Are you actually suggesting that drug abuse is hereditary? At a genetic level?

I'll grant that a child brought up in those sort of circumstances could be more likely to end up in that same life but that's their surroundings not their DNA.

Yes. There are many studies on this and many think that it is accountable for 40 -50% of addiction. I can say from personal experience that it is unusual to find an addict without at least some family history. In the worst case I know, 12 out of 12 siblings were addicts.

 

[Nibble]

Agreed, and my response is the same. Idiots will always find a way to get a hit. If it kills them, that's their fault, or are we going to blame somebody else.

The problem with that way of thinking, apart from being poorly informed and wrong, is that it in no way works toward solving or even managing a problem. Drug addicts exist. Fact. The current management systems, ie throwing them in jail, sticking them on methadone doesn't work. I'd welcome fresh ideas for the sake of ALL society, including you Uncle C.

 

[edna krabappel]

Are you actually suggesting that drug abuse is hereditary? At a genetic level?

I'll grant that a child brought up in those sort of circumstances could be more likely to end up in that same life but that's their surroundings not their DNA.

Surroundings are hugely important though. Children can't help their environment. Kids who have a bad start in life for whatever reason are more likely to end up in the same boat as their family members, be that through alcohol, drugs or whatever other vice applies. Their parents are frequently drunk or high, therefore that becomes their reality. The rest of us would find that shocking, but kids who grow up in homes where it's normal for Mum or Dad to drink every day might start to assume that's how it is for everyone. Life is tough for them because of their parents' problems, and they're more likely to start abusing substances themselves, if only to escape from it.

 

[The Merry Prankster]

That said, a disproportionately high number of children of recovering addicts go on to become addicts. Many of these children have never seen their parents drink or use. I once read a study (Swedish, from memory) that stated that a female addict had a 50% chance of producing an Addict and a man a 25% chance. Can't find the bloody thing now.

 

[Triggaaar]

My mate spent a weekend in hospital after drinking vodka he bought from a corner shop. It wasn't vodka, it was a bootleg spirit. People have been dying doing this neknominate stuff downing pints of gin. That's legal.

Same principle.

What happened to the corner shop? I'd hope the fact that is was legal for him to buy alcohol from the shop, meant that something was done about it to stop it happening to others.

 

[Triggaaar]

Why bother stopping people who want to take the risk of killing themselves with drugs.

It balances`the bleeding hearts brigade.

If they have no respect for their own bodies or safety then why should I?

Holy shit Uncle C. Are you ok?

 

[Nibble]

Holy shit Uncle C. Are you ok?

Think he's just read too much Daily Mail.

 

[Triggaaar]

Think he's just read too much Daily Mail.

I don't really keep track of NSC users, so perhaps you all realise this is standard stuff for Uncle C. I was giving him the benefit of being normal, so for a normal person to come out with such bile, I'd think they were feeling seriously depressed and wanting to give up.

 

[Nibble]

I don't really keep track of NSC users, so perhaps you all realise this is standard stuff for Uncle C. I was giving him the benefit of being normal, so for a normal person to come out with such bile, I'd think they were feeling seriously depressed and wanting to give up.

No idea at all.

 

[Northstand CAT]

There are plenty of benifits from a well supervised consumption room. There's already been a trials in Brighton and Manchester which were supposed to be evaluated, though I haven't heard whether they are likely to become permanent.

A clean room with sterile equipment e.g. needles and swabs is much better for the drug user. As already mentioned, the purity of drugs is still a problem, but clean equipment would stop a lot of infection, diseases and illness.
It is much easier to support addicts in a consumption room. Nurses, Mental health workers, rehabilitation and homeless agencies can be on hand and have access to a higher percentage of the citys drug addicts.
The risk of death from an otherdose is significantly reduced. Drugs like Naloxone which can reverse the effect of Opiates can be given quickly.
Keeps some drug use and paraphanelia off the streets. Although dealers lurking around the consumption centre might cause some problems for the immediate area.

Although there is the cost of opening and staffing the centre, A consumption room could stop bigger costs to the police, NHS, council etc further down the line.
A good idea which might not happen as people are going to be very reluctant to have a consumption room on their street.

 

[BigGully]

At the moment the main losers of the current drug regime are the general public through the associated crime that comes with prohibition. Drug users (many of whom have other issues to deal with too) also suffer health problems. You then also have a massive amount of recreational users who have a good time on drugs. All the while the demand for drugs causes problems in their country of origin, look at the problems created in Afghanistan, mexico and Colombia to see how devasting this industry is. Drug crime causes misery in the fiefdoms of the drug lords.

The only beneficiaries of the current drug situation are organised criminals. By maintaining the status quo you are only shoring up the biggest criminal business on the planet and making violent a-holes extremely rich. I find it astonishing that the public and governments are happy for this ridiculous situation to continue without being willing to at least entertain the possibility of a debate on changing the way things are.

Naive in the extreme.

The are two streams here firstly how can you control, manage and help hopeless drug addicts and how can we prevent others from using drugs and perhaps becoming hopeless drug addicts.

Forget the boring alcohol and nicotine argument, thats here and with all its negatives its ingrained in our communities, just more drugs isnt the answer.

For me it isnt about prosecuting the pot smoker or legalising it, but more how can we limit the chances of mine and your children using drugs.

Prohibition for all of its inconsistencies limits usage and therefore limits chances of drug addiction.

So tweak with current legislation if need be, but dont go down the path of free access to drugs for all unhindered by legislation or stigma otherwise our children too might just need these pathetic and depressing hell holes called consumption rooms.

 

[BBassic]

Yes. There are many studies on this and many think that it is accountable for 40 -50% of addiction. I can say from personal experience that it is unusual to find an addict without at least some family history. In the worst case I know, 12 out of 12 siblings were addicts.

Genuinely curious, could you link me to some of these studies? I just find it incredibly difficult to believe genetics could play such a role in substance abuse.

 

[Hotchilidog]

Naive in the extreme.

The are two streams here firstly how can you control, manage and help hopeless drug addicts and how can we prevent others from using drugs and perhaps becoming hopeless drug addicts.

Forget the boring alcohol and nicotine argument, thats here and with all its negatives its ingrained in our communities, just more drugs isnt the answer.

For me it isnt about prosecuting the pot smoker or legalising it, but more how can we limit the chances of mine and your children using drugs.

Prohibition for all of its inconsistencies limits usage and therefore limits chances of drug addiction.

So tweak with current legislation if need be, but dont go down the path of free access to drugs for all unhindered by legislation or stigma otherwise our children too might just need these pathetic and depressing hell holes called consumption rooms.

At the moment the drug trade is UNCONTROLLED. Law enforcement touches hardly any of it, should you feel the need to go and get some illegal drugs then from what i have heard it is fairly simple to do so. Demand for drugs is massive at the moment and we have ceded control of the trade to unscrupulous criminals. I too am not saying there should be a free-for-all, I am saying there has to be away to get the trade under some control and minimising the harm it causes. I think we agree on this point. However the status quo does NOTHING to minimise the harm of the trade, if anything it INCREASES it. Prohibition does very little to decrease demand.

For the record I do not use drugs, and would not advocate their use either. However I do not see why people who chose to alter their mental state should be criminalised just because they have chosen a proscribed method of doing it. I am more concerned about the victims of burglary, muggings and assaults that are the inevitable result of letting the criminals profit from the current situation. Not too mention the misery caused to populations at the drug source.

I think there should be a debate about how to improve the situation, personally I have no wish to see an anything goes situation, but I would like a solution that positively does something to make peoples lives better rather than the mess we have at the moment.

 

[Uncle C]

Holy shit Uncle C. Are you ok?

Better than having a go at our football team.

 

[Triggaaar]

Better than having a go at our football team.

Well it makes a change, that's for sure. I guess you felt the need to have a go at someone. I do find your view a bit surprising. No doubt there are some dickheads who have drug problems, and they'd still be dickheads if they didn't. But there are plenty of decent people who've lost their way for whatever reason, who don't deserve your disdain.