[Albion] Hurzeler is statistically our best Premier League manager

[Kalimantan Gull]

Stop arguing!

The point of this thread is clearly to make the case to people who wanted Fab sacked because he was out of his depth, etc etc, that his first season is actually comparable on a points per game basis to RDZ's first season, who is widely considered by most on here to be our best ever manager. That is a GOOD THING.

Of course there are nuances, who had a pre season, who inherited the better squad, who had to deal with the most injuries, who had the better style of play, who had to bed in the most new signings, who scored the most goals, who had the tougher opponents - but at the end of the day all that matters in the here and now is that our new manager has had a great first season in top flight football and the future is bright, the future is blue and white.

 

[Justice]

Both De Zerbi and Huerzeler have been very dependent on Mitoma to achieve their results.

If he goes. it will be interesting to see how Fab adapts

This, in a week 6 goals with Mitoma on the pitch one without.

 

[London Irish]

No idea why Fab having decent season means that RDZ needs to get slaughtered.
Personally my thoughts are RDZ gave me the best 18 months of my 40 years of supporting this club and Fab has a way to go to emulate that!

Indeed me too - but he could possibly emulate if he keeps his best players and gets the right additions. I think we go into next season thinking we can win a trophy, and that’s because of the foundations that have been laid this season. Let’s see

 

[London Irish]

You would rather the tonkings? Weirdo

We were injury shattered this season too, in case you didn’t notice, and it’s not just how much you spend, it’s how you spend. In our case, we spent mostly on youngsters, a number of whom didn’t even join the first team (and therefore didn’t contribute to our depth).

Oh dear - you can’t cope with grown up debate it seems

 

[pigmanovich]

Oh dear - you can’t cope with grown up debate it seems

I mean, I offered several specific, considered rebuttals - but it’s fine if you don’t have anything to counter with!

 

[Justice]

Of course you do.

Every manager has his own style. RdZ had to implement his, which took ?5 games.

He took Potters team and improved it from a playing style perspective.

Even MacAllister in an interview at Liverpool highlighted the impact and change in style, Dunk did, Lallana….. if those training under him every day are saying it, I know who I believe

I remember 5 or 6 games into last season after we had dismantled Wolves away ‘ are we ready for the champions league’ posts appeared lol. Despite having his midfield sold we were competitive until we lost like 9 first team players was it I can’t quite remember. We had academy players on our Europa league bench who had had no experience in the PL. Failed to get in any of the main targets and had to scramble around on dead line day bringing in an injured Fati.

Comparing this season and last is nonsense because we had more injuries less quality in the squad and the Europa league games.

 

[London Irish]

I mean, I offered several specific, considered rebuttals - but it’s fine if you don’t have anything to counter with!

I think I’ve contributed enough posts to this thread. It’s been a really great one to read because there’s been a huge range of interesting opinions in it with lots of varying thoughts expressed, nearly all without that need to descend into petty personal comments. I’d recommend that going forward, everyone learns more about our football

 

[London Irish]

Comparing this season and last is nonsense because we had more injuries less quality in the squad and the Europa league games.

Indeed

 

[The Optimist]

If you ignore 5 games a Hurzeler lost this season he did a lot better as well....I don't get your point.

Really. You don’t think joining mid season and going straight into games is harder than having a full preseason with the players to get them used to how you want to play?

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Not in terms of league position.

Not knocking Fab though subs today spot on, clearly learning.

It’s silly to get into another manager debate.

League position depends on what other teams do. You can only control what your team does, so comparing points is best metric

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Really. You don’t think joining mid season and going straight into games is harder than having a full preseason with the players to get them used to how you want to play?

I'm sure having a pre-season is better. On the other hand taking over a settled team that is purring is probably easier than taking over a squad with lots of new players to fit together.

Pros and cons

 

[AZ Gull]

Both De Zerbi and Huerzeler have been very dependent on Mitoma to achieve their results.

If he goes. it will be interesting to see how Fab adapts

But it is also only right to point out that De Zerbi was extraordinarily lucky to have the services of all of Moises Caicedo, Alexis Mac Allister and Pascal Gross during that 2022-23 season (two genuinely world class midfielders and a third who must be one of the best value signings in Premier League history). Caicedo was available for all but 1 PL game in 2022-23, Mac Allister missed just three PL games and Gross also missed just one PL game.

And yet Huerzeler's side averaged more points per game this season than RDZ's side

I find that absolutely astonishing.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I’m no statistician but I’d say neither has had enough games to really draw a conclusion - another couple of seasons with fab and we will know whether he should be in or out, in the meantime we can all practice the Hokey Cokey again in a few months.

Enough games? If a player can be written off after one game I can sure as hell draw a conclusion about a manager after 38.

 

[American Seagle]

Really. You don’t think joining mid season and going straight into games is harder than having a full preseason with the players to get them used to how you want to play?

Peter Taylor won four of his first five games after taking over mid season.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

But it is also only right to point out that De Zerbi was extraordinarily lucky to have the services of all of Moises Caicedo, Alexis Mac Allister and Pascal Gross during that 2022-23 season (two genuinely world class midfielders and a third who must be one of the best value signings in Premier League history). Caicedo was available for all but 1 PL game in 2022-23, Mac Allister missed just three PL games and Gross also missed just one PL game.

And yet Huerzeler's side averaged more points per game this season than RDZ's side

I find that absolutely astonishing.

All true.

But equally Huerzeler has benefitted from having squad depth far above what was available to De Zerbi

 

[American Seagle]

Both De Zerbi and Huerzeler have been very dependent on Mitoma to achieve their results.

If he goes. it will be interesting to see how Fab adapts

What!? Every manger ever in history had been very dependant on the players in the team. What do you think they use... telekinesis!? SMH.

 

[American Seagle]

People need to stop trying to make one better than the other. They have both proven to be very equal in their ability and results.
Give them both credit.

 

[The Optimist]

Peter Taylor won four of his first five games after taking over mid season.

It depends how much you want to change the style of play. RDZ had a very clear style of play and it took some time for him to get it across to the players. Hence a bedding in period of 2 points from 5 games followed by a period of 47 points from 27 games.

These aren’t periods of different form due to injuries, tough run of fixtures, knackered players etc.

 

[Guinness Boy]

It’s all about where you finish because your points total is only decent in comparison to the clubs around you. The coach who gets us into the Europa League again will match our best achievement and probably have a better ppg than RDZ doind it as they’ll likely get a pre season and a say in players.

That’s not to denigrate Fab. He’s done a great job and far better than I thought he’d do after Forest. It’s simply that achievements and trophies are ultimate in football.

Palace won a major trophy for the first time. Who’s going to remember they played three pub teams in a few years?

That said, both our most recent coaches have done way better than Potter in both points and position.

 

[Justice]

Did anyone really expect RDZ to match the achievement of the first season after having the midfield sold off and not replaced? With Europa league to play in surely we didn’t expect another top six finish.