[Football] Champions' league final issues

[Originunknown]

So far,, various reports have said: -
Fans arrived late causing long queues (clearly false information)
Ticketless fans climbing into the stadium (videos of fans climbing barriers to get near the stadium, so not demonstrably true)
Fans with fake tickets clogging up the turnstiles (no evidence provided but probably some factual basis)
Gates shut for over an hour with fans queuing outside (first-hand reports from reputable sources)
French police pepper spraying and baton charging fans to move them away from the gates (first-hand reports from reputable sources)

Some of the early "information" looks like the usual UEFA deflection from the logistical mess-up and over-reaction by the French authorities. Quelle surprise.
Expect a proper independent enquiry to roundly castigate the French authorities for organisational incompetence, and to mention ticketless fans and fake tickets as contributory factors. Who knows, they may even produce some evidence of the contributory factors?

[Tweet]1530618659521056770[/tweet]

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I don’t really know of Liverpool fans who regularly travel to away games and gain entry to grounds, no. I have no reason to disbelieve you though. I do think you should take another look at your final point. The fact that there are some fans who are less than innocent does not mean all fans should be treated in a certain way. Imagine applying that to lots of non football situations. I will leave you to make those analogies. My comments on this thread in part relate to worries for the safety of kids I know who travelled. I don’t think they should be treated any differently than kids everywhere because of ‘historical reasons.’

Quite.

Some of the arguments on this thread, noting the presence of Liverpool supporters trying to get in without tickets (an undoubted fact), and the consequent apparent green light this gives to make jokes about scousers, which will fuel the narrative that if there were any of them inconvenienced or worse (injured?), they brought it on themselves, lumping everyone trying to get into the ground as a typical scourser, reminds me of how easy it was back in the late 70s to justify police roughing up and abusing and arresting a sixth former on his way home school because this was London and the boy was black. "It is unfortunate for the innocent minority among them, but they do bring it on themselves".

After Hillsborough, one might have hoped that the prejudicial tropes (and 'jokes') would be set aside. Apparently not.

Check your hubcaps!

 

[Springal]

The report by Rob Draper on Twitter as to his experience and the sheer incompetence of the authorities on the night is illuminating. Even if there were fans with forged tickets or no tickets this is a shocking dereliction of duty.

https://twitter.com/draper_rob/status/1530830463270518785?t=h9JzGLd-2NvGUb8C-FBkzg&s=19

I do agree - but fans need to take responsibility if you have hundreds / thousands extra all going to a gate either with fake tickets or without any at all. Just adds to the congestion and well known French police only have 1 way of acting at any sign of trouble

 

[Deadly Danson]

Quite.

Some of the arguments on this thread, noting the presence of Liverpool supporters trying to get in without tickets (an undoubted fact), and the consequent apparent green light this gives to make jokes about scousers, which will fuel the narrative that if there were any of them inconvenienced or worse (injured?), they brought it on themselves, lumping everyone trying to get into the ground as a typical scourser, reminds me of how easy it was back in the late 70s to justify police roughing up and abusing and arresting a sixth former on his way home school because this was London and the boy was black. "It is unfortunate for the innocent minority among them, but they do bring it on themselves".

After Hillsborough, one might have hoped that the prejudicial tropes (and 'jokes') would be set aside. Apparently not.

Check your hubcaps!

Completely this. I sort of can't believe some of the stuff being written unchecked on this thread. Some of it frankly repulsive.

 

[Seagull58]

[Tweet]1530618659521056770[/tweet]

Yes, I saw that video last night but are they running through barriers to get to the ticket gate or have they broken through the ticket gate or have they gone through the ticket gate with tickets and are simply running to get to the stadium ASAP?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I often find it curious that supposedly Brighton fans have such a sympathetic view of Liverpool - that would never be afforded to Man united for example - and this thread throws up a few classics, the "great city and fans" comment earlier in the thread made me want to chunder. I suspect some of the people on here are really glory Liverpool fans in their late 40s and 50s.

That said, this appears to be a complete organisation cock up from beginning to end. I vowed never to go back to France after Euros there and this thread is a good a summary as any as to the issues.

[TWEET]1530830463270518785[/TWEET]

I happen to have a good friend of 30+ years who is a Liverpudlian and red, with whom I watch telly football. I like to see him happy, which means that when it isn't against us, I like to see Liverpool win.

Perhaps that gives me an incentive to not slip into the usual lazy anti-scouser tropes, which is, I suspect quite important when measuring one's attitude to misfortune falling on supporters of other teams. (How big is the '**** 'em' factor? Indeed.)

I'd like to think that if Palce supporters got ****ed up in a similar fashion I would be equally sympathetic. I remember some of them at Fans United, so I suspect I would (despite my disdain for the wankers in black).

And, yes, I am still sufficiently detached from any sense of Eurpean rivalry with the likes of Liverpool, Chelsea, Citeh etc., I still like the idea of the EPL team winning the European trophys. Why not? My view may well change after Brighton have won a few European trophies.

But.....I doubt very much that anyone posting a positive comment about Liverpool (as a club, as a collection of supporters, as a city or whatever) are secret Liverpool supporters. I certainly am not, and taking points off them gives me as much pleasure (probably more) than taking points off lesser teams like Burnley, Palace and Stains.

Anyway.....never mind. I think we can all see this was realy piss poor by the French.

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

I don’t really know of Liverpool fans who regularly travel to away games and gain entry to grounds, no. I have no reason to disbelieve you though. I do think you should take another look at your final point. The fact that there are some fans who are less than innocent does not mean all fans should be treated in a certain way. Imagine applying that to lots of non football situations. I will leave you to make those analogies. My comments on this thread in part relate to worries for the safety of kids I know who travelled. I don’t think they should be treated any differently than kids everywhere because of ‘historical reasons.’

Since you quoted my original post, you must already be aware that I believe it is no excuse for tear-gassing or pepper-spraying fans.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I happen to have a good friend of 30+ years who is a Liverpudlian and red, with whom I watch telly football. I like to see him happy, which means that when it isn't against us, I like to see Liverpool win.

Perhaps that gives me an incentive to not slip into the usual lazy anti-scouser tropes, which is, I suspect quite important when measuring one's attitude to misfortune falling on supporters of other teams. (How big is the '**** 'em' factor? Indeed.)

I'd like to think that if Palce supporters got ****ed up in a similar fashion I would be equally sympathetic. I remember some of them at Fans United, so I suspect I would (despite my disdain for the wankers in black).

And, yes, I am still sufficiently detached from any sense of Eurpean rivalry with the likes of Liverpool, Chelsea, Citeh etc., I still like the idea of the EPL team winning the European trophys. Why not? My view may well change after Brighton have won a few European trophies.

But.....I doubt very much that anyone posting a positive comment about Liverpool (as a club, as a collection of supporters, as a city or whatever) are secret Liverpool supporters. I certainly am not, and taking points off them gives me as much pleasure (probably more) than taking points off lesser teams like Burnley, Palace and Stains.

Anyway.....never mind. I think we can all see this was realy piss poor by the French.

But Palace fans did break into the away end at the Amex without tickets and the police seemingly made up stuff about them having weapons, yet the overwhelming response on here was the correct one. Scumbags all round.

Still, loveable Mickeys eh? Great city (that they leave when they've made it). The cab driver who tried to charge us £45 for a 10 minute ride back from the Cavern Club when we played them in 17/18 must have been an anomoly.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Since you quoted my original post, you must already be aware that I believe it is no excuse for tear-gassing or pepper-spraying fans.

Yes, I am. I challenged your ‘historical blame’ argument and treating all fans in the same way. Don’t think I deserve your caustic reply.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

But Palace fans did break into the away end at the Amex without tickets and the police seemingly made up stuff about them having weapons, yet the overwhelming response on here was the correct one. Scumbags all round.

Still, loveable Mickeys eh? Great city (that they leave when they've made it). The cab driver who tried to charge us £45 for a 10 minute ride back from the Cavern Club when we played them in 17/18 must have been an anomoly.

Blimey GB, you’ve got it bad. Let’s wait until the facts are established before condemning a whole city. I’m seeing BBC news now blaming French hooligans for a lot of trouble. Who knows. The first hand accounts by football supporters are at least worth listening to.

 

[drew]

Yes, I saw that video last night but are they running through barriers to get to the ticket gate or have they broken through the ticket gate or have they gone through the ticket gate with tickets and are simply running to get to the stadium ASAP?

But isn't that what happened at Wembley? Get through the first barrier and then work out how to get through the next one only at Wembley there were reports of either fans already inside or even a steward opening a door into the stadium itself.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Blimey GB, you’ve got it bad. Let’s wait until the facts are established before condemning a whole city. I’m seeing BBC news now blaming French hooligans for a lot of trouble. Who knows. The first hand accounts by football supporters are at least worth listening to.

As with your reply to [MENTION=10202]Not Andy Naylor[/MENTION] you only seem to be reading the parts of posts that suit what you've already decided. So I'll post the relevant bit from this morning that answers the above again.

Genuine Liverpool fans with genuine tickets have been treated appallingly, by UEFA, by the police and by their own ticketless scumbags.

I can do that in exactly the same way as regarding those who broke into the Euro final here as scum and the lot that do the German Bomber and No Surrender songs without being against England.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I often find it curious that supposedly Brighton fans have such a sympathetic view of Liverpool - that would never be afforded to Man united for example - and this thread throws up a few classics, the "great city and fans" comment earlier in the thread made me want to chunder. I suspect some of the people on here are really glory Liverpool fans in their late 40s and 50s.

That said, this appears to be a complete organisation cock up from beginning to end. I vowed never to go back to France after Euros there and this thread is a good a summary as any as to the issues.

[TWEET]1530830463270518785[/TWEET]

Wow, so attempting to challenge prejudice against the area in which I live makes me a secret Liverpool fan now ! You people are actually putting me off the club I have supported all over the country since I was a kid.

 

[drew]

why don't you write to the author and ask him if anyone can confirm it....i was told by people who were there .

Were any of your 'mates' involved in charging the Juve fans?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

As with your reply to [MENTION=10202]Not Andy Naylor[/MENTION] you only seem to be reading the parts of posts that suit what you've already decided. So I'll post the relevant bit from this morning that answers the above again.

That’s a cheap shot. Like Not Andy Naylor you have completely missed the point. What if it turns out there were an insignificant number of ticketless fans and they played no major part in the problems last night ? It would render your ‘I condemn bad treatment of anyone behave correctly’ point irrelevant. You have made your mind up basis some taxi journey you made and a few other lazy stereotypes whereas I am waiting for the facts.

 

[BN41Albion]

Wow, so attempting to challenge prejudice against the area in which I live makes me a secret Liverpool fan now ! You people are actually putting me off the club I have supported all over the country since I was a kid.

A couple of posters posting shit on an Internet fans forum (always notorious for not-so-balanced views etc) is putting you off BHA? Give over!

 

[sydney]

Horrific. As he says though there are too many who want to believe the authorities’ blame shifting version of events. This thread is proof of that. Some don’t even want to wait to establish the facts as that would challenge their prejudices.

as more of these reports surface along with statements from Merseyside police traveling with the LFC that their behaviour was " exemplary" perhaps the holier than thou tossers who are so quick to shit on their countrymen will wind their necks in and admit they were wrong....but they won't.

 

[sydney]

Were any of your 'mates' involved in charging the Juve fans?

probably.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

A couple of posters posting shit on an Internet fans forum (always notorious for not-so-balanced views etc) is putting you off BHA? Give over!

Yeah, you’re right. Dumb thread though.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Yeah, you’re right. Dumb thread though.

Valid enough thread IMHO, but with some seriously nasty undertones