[Football] Champions' league final issues

[Springal]

UEFA claimed the delay to kick off was due to fans arriving late.

Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk

They’re lying. It was already carnage 2.5 hours before kick off with police kettling fans in

The French cannot police football properly. Having been there many times and being caught up in the worst of the trouble in 2016 they only have 1 way of policing and that is tear gas and baton charges

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

If you think tear gassing football fans (including children) is a ‘necessary reaction following a bottleneck of fans’ then we don’t have much common ground. You are also still making unsubstantiated claims as to the cause of the problem being fake tickets and are just taking UEFA’s word for it rather than wait for the results of an independent investigation. We have been here before with Liverpool fans, haven’t we. What an embarrassing thread for a Brighton fan living in Merseyside.

But living where you do, I’m sure you know that there are LFC fans who regularly travel to games without tickets and find their way in. Of course it is no justification for tear-gassing or pepper-spraying fans, but there is often an assumption of injured innocence in some quarters on behalf of all Liverpool supporters for perfectly natural historical reasons, when some among them are not innocent at all.

 

[Eeyore]

A contributing factor for sure, many probably arriving late with fake tickets or ticketless too.

Not according to the Merseyside Police at the game.

As I said, best wait for the facts.

 

[Guinness Boy]

But living where you do, you must know that there are LFC fans who regularly travel to games without tickets and find their way in. Of course it is no justification for tear-gassing or pepper-spraying fans, but there is often an assumption of injured innocence on the part of all Liverpool supporters for perfectly natural historical reasons, when some among them are not innocent at all.

Exactly.

No doubt UEFA cocked things up, Paris wasn't as ready to take over as it said and the French police ARE awful (tear gas is their answer to pretty much any crowd) but the facts remain that ticketless Liverpool fans travelled, encouraged to do so by Klopp, and that there were people in the stadium who shouldn't have been, while there were people who didn't get in who should have. That's thievery. If it's not nipped in the bud it will happen at any and every big final and it's also a fact that England fans at Wembley for the Euros final getting away with it has probably encouraged others to try their luck.

This is an interesting choice of words from the BBC.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61619831

Defender Robertson says he had given a ticket to a friend but he was denied entry for the game.

"One of my mates got told it was a fake which I assure you it wasn't," he said.

My emphasis. If that's a bone fide comp then it looks like issues also existed with the turnstiles but if someone had a ticket in someone else's name and was refused, that's surely fair enough? We have to provide ID at Palace.

 

[Originunknown]

Not according to the Merseyside Police at the game.

As I said, best wait for the facts.

Arriving 2 hours before the game turned out to be too late for some. Shame.

 

[beorhthelm]

This is an interesting choice of words from the BBC.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61619831

Defender Robertson says he had given a ticket to a friend but he was denied entry for the game.

"One of my mates got told it was a fake which I assure you it wasn't," he said.

My emphasis. If that's a bone fide comp then it looks like issues also existed with the turnstiles but if someone had a ticket in someone else's name and was refused, that's surely fair enough? We have to provide ID at Palace.

think you're reading that wrongly. i'd assume it was given through official means, not going to have Robertson's name on it.

 

[Guinness Boy]

think you're reading that wrongly. i'd assume it was given through official means, not going to have Robertson's name on it.

I'm not reading it either way because I said "if, or, but".

Neither of us knows what name was on the ticket, nor if the other fakes in circulation were also fake comps. Hard to personalise a fake.

 

[gripper stebson]

If Cucu goes for £60m the profit we got for him, Burn, and White has basically paid for The Amex and the Training Ground.

Tone must be pleased.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

But living where you do, I’m sure you know that there are LFC fans who regularly travel to games without tickets and find their way in. Of course it is no justification for tear-gassing or pepper-spraying fans, but there is often an assumption of injured innocence in some quarters on behalf of all Liverpool supporters for perfectly natural historical reasons, when some among them are not innocent at all.

I don’t really know of Liverpool fans who regularly travel to away games and gain entry to grounds, no. I have no reason to disbelieve you though. I do think you should take another look at your final point. The fact that there are some fans who are less than innocent does not mean all fans should be treated in a certain way. Imagine applying that to lots of non football situations. I will leave you to make those analogies. My comments on this thread in part relate to worries for the safety of kids I know who travelled. I don’t think they should be treated any differently than kids everywhere because of ‘historical reasons.’

 

[kevo]

This fan's account sounds absolutely horrific. Very fortunate there wasn't a major loss of life.
https://metro.co.uk/2022/05/29/uefa...arnage-liverpool-fans-faced-in-paris-16730799

 

[Originunknown]

Have they started complaining about the local pickpockets yet?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

This fan's account sounds absolutely horrific. Very fortunate there wasn't a najor loss of life.
https://metro.co.uk/2022/05/29/uefa...arnage-liverpool-fans-faced-in-paris-16730799

Horrific. As he says though there are too many who want to believe the authorities’ blame shifting version of events. This thread is proof of that. Some don’t even want to wait to establish the facts as that would challenge their prejudices.

 

[Seagull58]

So far,, various reports have said: -
Fans arrived late causing long queues (clearly false information)
Ticketless fans climbing into the stadium (videos of fans climbing barriers to get near the stadium, so not demonstrably true)
Fans with fake tickets clogging up the turnstiles (no evidence provided but probably some factual basis)
Gates shut for over an hour with fans queuing outside (first-hand reports from reputable sources)
French police pepper spraying and baton charging fans to move them away from the gates (first-hand reports from reputable sources)

Some of the early "information" looks like the usual UEFA deflection from the logistical mess-up and over-reaction by the French authorities. Quelle surprise.
Expect a proper independent enquiry to roundly castigate the French authorities for organisational incompetence, and to mention ticketless fans and fake tickets as contributory factors. Who knows, they may even produce some evidence of the contributory factors?

 

[LamieRobertson]

Horrific. As he says though there are too many who want to believe the authorities’ blame shifting version of events. This thread is proof of that. Some don’t even want to wait to establish the facts as that would challenge their prejudices.

Ain’t that just so.

 

[LamieRobertson]

I'm not reading it either way because I said "if, or, but".

Neither of us knows what name was on the ticket, nor if the other fakes in circulation were also fake comps. Hard to personalise a fake.

…but you’ve chosen to take one side..(against Liverpool fans) even as you state ‘if’…but then I’m not surprised

 

[Guinness Boy]

…but you’ve chosen to take one side..(against Liverpool fans) even as you state ‘if’…but then I’m not surprised

That's factually incorrect.

I'm against anyone who got into or tried to get into that ground when they didn't have a legitimate ticket for it. As I said last night, with 10 Liverpool fans to every one Madrid, it stands to reason there were more Liverpool trying to get in without the right to than any other type. And there were that many Liverpool fans there because they've always travelled without tickets and, on this occasion were encouraged to do so by Liverpool's manager.

Genuine Liverpool fans with genuine tickets have been treated appallingly, by UEFA, by the police and by their own ticketless scumbags.

I can do that in exactly the same way as regarding those who broke into the Euro final here as scum and the lot that do the German Bomber and No Surrender songs without being against England.

Beyond that I reserve the right to crack a joke about nicked Lacostes when that's how Liverpool's casuals infamously funded their trips back in the day. Have you never done a funny about Man U fans coming from Essex or Palace being Nig31s / living in a caravan / burning down Croydon?

 

[fly high]

So far,, various reports have said: -
Fans arrived late causing long queues (clearly false information)
Ticketless fans climbing into the stadium (videos of fans climbing barriers to get near the stadium, so not demonstrably true)
Fans with fake tickets clogging up the turnstiles (no evidence provided but probably some factual basis)
Gates shut for over an hour with fans queuing outside (first-hand reports from reputable sources)
French police pepper spraying and baton charging fans to move them away from the gates (first-hand reports from reputable sources)

Some of the early "information" looks like the usual UEFA deflection from the logistical mess-up and over-reaction by the French authorities. Quelle surprise.
Expect a proper independent enquiry to roundly castigate the French authorities for organisational incompetence, and to mention ticketless fans and fake tickets as contributory factors. Who knows, they may even produce some evidence of the contributory factors?

But who will carry out the independent inquiry? Set up by the French or UEFA won't be independent. Set up by the FA, will be completely rubbished by French & UEFA. Predict a whitewash.

 

[Seagull58]

But who will carry out the independent inquiry? Set up by the French or UEFA won't be independent. Set up by the FA, will be completely rubbished by French & UEFA. Predict a whitewash.

Sue Grey is available.

 

[Deadly Danson]

The report by Rob Draper on Twitter as to his experience and the sheer incompetence of the authorities on the night is illuminating. Even if there were fans with forged tickets or no tickets this is a shocking dereliction of duty.

https://twitter.com/draper_rob/status/1530830463270518785?t=h9JzGLd-2NvGUb8C-FBkzg&s=19

 

[Iggle Piggle]

I often find it curious that supposedly Brighton fans have such a sympathetic view of Liverpool - that would never be afforded to Man united for example - and this thread throws up a few classics, the "great city and fans" comment earlier in the thread made me want to chunder. I suspect some of the people on here are really glory Liverpool fans in their late 40s and 50s.

That said, this appears to be a complete organisation cock up from beginning to end. I vowed never to go back to France after Euros there and this thread is a good a summary as any as to the issues.

[TWEET]1530830463270518785[/TWEET]