Star Wars: The Force Awakens - with Spoilers - discussion thread

[Normal Rob]

Why oh why did they feel the need to make Kylo Ren remove his mask? In an instant he went from looking like a dark lord to a petulant American schoolkid.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Why oh why did they feel the need to make Kylo Ren remove his mask? In an instant he went from looking like a dark lord to a petulant American schoolkid.

I think that was the point. You initially think he's this all powerful Vader clone, but then his actions and appearance make you realize he's just a petulant, conflicted kid. I'm one film they managed to include more character development for Kylo Ren than they managed in 3 with young Anikin. Excellently done.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Why oh why did they feel the need to make Kylo Ren remove his mask? In an instant he went from looking like a dark lord to a petulant American schoolkid.

That's exactly what they wanted to achieve, surely? The entire point was that he was battling his human emotions. They are trying to give the character more depth than just 'cartoon bad guy'.

 

[Normal Rob]

I think that was the point. You initially think he's this all powerful Vader clone, but then his actions and appearance make you realize he's just a petulant, conflicted kid. I'm one film they managed to include more character development for Kylo Ren than they managed in 3 with young Anikin. Excellently done.

hmmm - i disagree, but hey-ho. It's only a film.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

That's exactly what they wanted to achieve, surely? The entire point was that he was battling his human emotions. They are trying to give the character more depth than just 'cartoon bad guy'.

Totally agree.

The trailers built him up as a powerful dark side force user - very Vader like.

The opening scenes also paint him as very strong in the force, with being able to stop a blaster bolt used as a great example.

So, to that point he's a bog standard baddie - powerful and bland.

then we get the scene where the general? delivers the bad news that Po Dameron and Finn have escaped, and based upon the setup we expect him to force choke the guy. It's here we get the first glimpse that all is not as we expected, when instead he ignites his lightsaber and trashes the control desk. Suddenly you realize that this is not someone like Darth Vader, but a far less controlled and mature person, a petulant child, trashing his bedroom.

The removal of the helmet helps to emphasize the humanity and fragility of his position on the dark side. He is continually conflicted, and it's interesting to see him being tempted by the light side, an interesting twist on Anakin's path.

I'm intrigued to see where Ben / Kylo's path goes, as there is a chance he will turn away from the dark at some point. I know he seem beyond redemption at the moment, having just killed his own father to 'seal the deal', but Anakin did worse and was 'saved'.

Now, if Kylo can potentially turn to the light, what does that mean for Rey - could she be set for a darker path in the future?

 

[maltaseagull]

Really enjoyed the film but considering the hype, I felt much the same sort of underwhelmed as I did after watching the first one back in the 70s.

Was expecting the greatest movie ever and it isn't that.

 

[Normal Rob]

Totally agree.

The trailers built him up as a powerful dark side force user - very Vader like.

The opening scenes also paint him as very strong in the force, with being able to stop a blaster bolt used as a great example.

So, to that point he's a bog standard baddie - powerful and bland.

then we get the scene where the general? delivers the bad news that Po Dameron and Finn have escaped, and based upon the setup we expect him to force choke the guy. It's here we get the first glimpse that all is not as we expected, when instead he ignites his lightsaber and trashes the control desk. Suddenly you realize that this is not someone like Darth Vader, but a far less controlled and mature person, a petulant child, trashing his bedroom.

The removal of the helmet helps to emphasize the humanity and fragility of his position on the dark side. He is continually conflicted, and it's interesting to see him being tempted by the light side, an interesting twist on Anakin's path.

I'm intrigued to see where Ben / Kylo's path goes, as there is a chance he will turn away from the dark at some point. I know he seem beyond redemption at the moment, having just killed his own father to 'seal the deal', but Anakin did worse and was 'saved'.

Now, if Kylo can potentially turn to the light, what does that mean for Rey - could she be set for a darker path in the future?

Is it not the case that there are only 2 films left to be made? If that is so then surely to fit anything like that scenario in then both films would either need to be extremely long, or edited to shite in order to fit them into a more acceptable time limit. (a big problem with TFA in my opinion).

I hope that a Directors cut of TFA comes out - I'd be more than happy to sit through 3 hours to see a lot of what was left on the cutting room floor.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Is it not the case that there are only 2 films left to be made? If that is so then surely to fit anything like that scenario in then both films would either need to be extremely long, or edited to shite in order to fit them into a more acceptable time limit. (a big problem with TFA in my opinion).

I hope that a Directors cut of TFA comes out - I'd be more than happy to sit through 3 hours to see a lot of what was left on the cutting room floor.

I'd love to see that as well. The 2hours and 16 minutes went very quickly. I'd have watched another half hour happily.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Why oh why did they feel the need to make Kylo Ren remove his mask? In an instant he went from looking like a dark lord to a petulant American schoolkid.

I think that was the point. You initially think he's this all powerful Vader clone, but then his actions and appearance make you realize he's just a petulant, conflicted kid. I'm one film they managed to include more character development for Kylo Ren than they managed in 3 with young Anikin. Excellently done.

Yes, exactly in a much shorter time frame and within a couple of scenes i.e. his petulance in dealing with authority with the other general, his unhealthy worship of Vader's mask, his growing fear of Rey - without the drawn out love scenes like we had with Anakin, this film has you getting Kylo very quicker, but also enough to be surprised at the outcome at the end. He had to look exactly like the sweet kid gone wrong, ready to be saved from himself. I did think it was an excellent build up to the final scenes.

 

[beorhthelm]

I hope that a Directors cut of TFA comes out - I'd be more than happy to sit through 3 hours to see a lot of what was left on the cutting room floor.

JJ Abrams has gone on record that he doesn't believe in re-edit a Directors cut, though studios are known to overrule artistic principles. as i understand it, reading the novelisation will tell you most if not all that was cut.

 

[Normal Rob]

JJ Abrams has gone on record that he doesn't believe in re-edit a Directors cut, though studios are known to overrule artistic principles. as i understand it, reading the novelisation will tell you most if not all that was cut.

But it would make it a better film (my view,obviously).

As for reading a book? No, I'm not that into it.

 

[Acker79]

http://io9.gizmodo.com/all-the-backstory-you-desperately-want-to-know-about-th-1751196966

Not quite 'all the backstory' the title promises, but some interesting info.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Finally saw it. Walked away laughing at how big a Mary Sue they have made Rey.

Goes from knowing nothing about the force to being able to use it and defeat a trained Jedi in 20 minutes.

Goes from being a junker to be being able to fly the millennium falcon like one of the best pilots in the galaxy. Simply by sayin "i'm a pilot".

Terrible character creation and development.

 

[Tarpon]

Whose acting was disappointing?

The lead actress was pretty erratic. Finn was more consistent. Everyone else was somewhere in between. It's no biggie, I wasn't expecting a master class & think they were left pretty exposed by script and plot at times. The Walking Carpet was decent. Maybe I'll be more forgiving on the inevitable second viewing in due course. I'm in no rush though.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Finally saw it. Walked away laughing at how big a Mary Sue they have made Rey.

Goes from knowing nothing about the force to being able to use it and defeat a trained Jedi in 20 minutes.

Goes from being a junker to be being able to fly the millennium falcon like one of the best pilots in the galaxy. Simply by sayin "i'm a pilot".

Terrible character creation and development.

I thought the whole point was that Ren wasn't a trained Jedi? We are told Luke failed in his training of him. So he goes off to the dark side, half cocked, uncontrolled, temper tantrums - it's pretty clear I thought that he wasn't particularly powerful, appeared to have no master, had serious commitment issues, and wasn't top dog in the chain of command. He struggled getting info. from Poe, and shit himself as soon as he met Rey...that was no Jedi.

 

[StonehamPark]

Has anyone seen it in 4DX at Crawley yet?

Thinking about going next week.

Failing that, IMAX at Crawley.

Note. It'll be my second viewing.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

My take on it, having not waded through 32 pages was that firstly it was bloody brilliant (3D) and I loved it. Secondly it seemed to be a re-incarnate of A New Hope, which is no bad thing, I re-watched Episode IV over Christmas and the similarities are uncanny. Both great movies, both thumbs up from me, and who says Solo is dead anyway? Did we see him die?

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Has anyone seen it in 4DX at Crawley yet?

Thinking about going next week.

Failing that, IMAX at Crawley.

Note. It'll be my second viewing.

I saw it at Crawley IMAX, where is the 4DX?

 

[Papa Lazarou]

I saw it at Crawley IMAX, where is the 4DX?

The 4DX is the opposite side of the cinema, so over near the door for screen 1-5 etc. I saw it in Imax at Crawley - really nice.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

The 4DX is the opposite side of the cinema, so over near the door for screen 1-5 etc. I saw it in Imax at Crawley - really nice.

So is screen 2 (or 3) can't recall now, are they 4DX? I so rarely go to the movies it's all foreign to me.