[Albion] Sanchez handball/red card?

[Originunknown]

Lucky boy, however we were due a bit of luck and I think we'd have had enough to edge past them even with 10 men.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Its over for him in that case. There has never been any error free footballer and Robert Sanchez won't be the first one.

I forgot about the taking things absolutely literally. Can I rephrase to committing less errors, or being more consistent in order to win his no.1 status back. There is no great conspiracy here, Steele has won the confidence of the manager through hard work and performance, and Sanchez needs to do the same to win it back.

 

[RandyWanger]

Glad that was his 'one mistake' and nothing more serious. Other than that, solid game and when called upon, was solid.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I still haven't seen a single image that proves beyond doubt the whole of the ball was over all of the line, which is what would have been needed.

Even if VAR had concluded it was handball they then have a second decision to make about clear goal scoring opportunity. Given what @Acker79 has posted from the laws and about how close Sanchez was to the striker I don't think that necessarily would have ended up as a red, even if a replay showed light between the ball and line - which it hasn't.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Glad that was his 'one mistake' and nothing more serious. Other than that, solid game and when called upon, was solid.

I'm pretty sure that "mistakes" like that (or great save given what I have written above) are less important to RDZ than his tendency to go long under pressure. Steele draws the press and keeps it short.

 

[CheeseRolls]

How about this one when he first touches the ball. Right foot over line (irrelevant on its own) but ball is in front of his right foot. But maybe not clear and obvious. Still think we got away with that. Still confident we would have won with 10 men.

Not what I saw. It was actually quite a clumsy take from Sanchez. Here he is following the ball and doesn't actually grasp it until it is passing underneath his backside, which is why I said it looked clumsy. I am satisfied that Sanchez knew what he was doing and the decision was correct.

 

[Icy Gull]

Yeah but you've never been one who chases scapegoats, unlike a lot of other people.

Maybe you're not well integrated to modern hyper-individualistic society where success and failure in a team game comes down to one bloke.

Anyway, have to take the positives: people have been looking long and hard to find the real reason (person) Brighton aren't winning every single game and topping the league. They tried with Solly early in the season, Webster a few months ago until they finally found pleasure and relief in Sanchez.

Oh I don’t know, I did used to moan like buggery about Solly being the most frustrating Albion player I’d ever seen as he sent over crosses without looking up having shown so much skill to get into a position to do it

Now arguably my player of the season so far, fickle? Moi?

 

[Swansman]

I still haven't seen a single image that proves beyond doubt the whole of the ball was over all of the line, which is what would have been needed.

Even if VAR had concluded it was handball they then have a second decision to make about clear goal scoring opportunity. Given what @Acker79 has posted from the laws and about how close Sanchez was to the striker I don't think that necessarily would have ended up as a red, even if a replay showed light between the ball and line - which it hasn't.

Agree that it can't be proven beyond doubt and thats why VAR ignored it eventually. Which is fair enough.

The take that it wouldn't have been a red (if it was outside) is pretty wild though. If Lewis Dunk have a one meter advantage in a 1on1 as the last defender and picks the ball up with both his hands, he gets a red card. Same goes for anyone else doing that in that situation.

 

[Giraffe]

If a smidgen is on the line, it's fine.

Indeed, something I only learned recently. It's not inside the box, it's on the box, so the line is the keepers as well. News to me until a few months ago!

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

A negative side effect of VAR (as opposed to a lot of the negative direct effects) is that officials are being trained out of making in the moment decisions .... they aren't having show the courage of their convictions day in and day out, so when a decision like this comes along and it looks pretty out, the lino is much more likely to bottle it. Had the lino gone the other way, it wouldn't have been overturned

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Jonathon Pearce I thought got it right when he made the comment about Sanchez judgement. Undoubtedly, Robbie is the better keeper, he will make saves that Steele couldn't.

But I think we get the calmness thing completely wrong. Steele has much more clarity of thought in the heat of a match than Sanchez and I think is making better decisions.

I agree with the comment earlier that Sanchez is displaying the sign that he knows he can't hack a single ball into the crowd even at the risk of a red card or he'll never get his place back. It's the sign of someone succumbing to pressure

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

I'm a little confused about the red card for handball law. I thought it was for deliberate handball denying a goal scoring opportunity. But in this case I can't see how it is a deliberate handball, Sanchez thinks it's in the area, ergo not deliberate handball.

I'd also argue that Willians wasnt deliberate either.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Agree that it can't be proven beyond doubt and thats why VAR ignored it eventually. Which is fair enough.

The take that it wouldn't have been a red (if it was outside) is pretty wild though. If Lewis Dunk have a one meter advantage in a 1on1 as the last defender and picks the ball up with both his hands, he gets a red card. Same goes for anyone else doing that in that situation.

But, again, Dunk isn’t a keeper. The laws Acker quoted specifically apply to goalkeepers

 

[Swansman]

I'm a little confused about the red card for handball law. I thought it was for deliberate handball denying a goal scoring opportunity. But in this case I can't see how it is a deliberate handball, Sanchez thinks it's in the area, ergo not deliberate handball.

I'd also argue that Willians wasnt deliberate either.

Doesn't matter where he thinks he is. If he leans forward and picks it up with his hands, he is deliberately handling the ball with his hands.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Doesn't matter where he thinks he is. If he leans forward and picks it up with his hands, he is deliberately handling the ball with his hands.

Yes, deliberately handling the ball, but not committing a deliberate handball.

I think the semantics should be important.

Obviously as far as refs go they're not. They couldn't wait to give three reds to Fulham when i don't think any of them should have been given.

 

[Swansman]

But, again, Dunk isn’t a keeper. The laws Acker quoted specifically apply to goalkeepers

Yes and like Nick Pope was sent off for handling the ball outside the penalty area in a one on one against the opponent, Robert Sanchez would also have been sent off if he was handling the ball outside the penalty area in a one on one. What Acker quoted also says that "The goalkeeper has the same restrictions on handling the ball as any other player outside the penalty area." If Lewis Dunk can not pick up the ball with his hands outside the penalty area, Robert Sanchez also can not do it.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Surely we've learnt from Mitoma in the world cup that the ball has to look REALLY REALLY over the line for it to actually be completely over the line. The slightest part of the ball touching the slightest part of the line and it's inside.

Sanchez is nowhere near touching the ball outside the area.

 

[5Ways Gull]

I still haven't seen a single image that proves beyond doubt the whole of the ball was over all of the line, which is what would have been needed.

Even if VAR had concluded it was handball they then have a second decision to make about clear goal scoring opportunity. Given what @Acker79 has posted from the laws and about how close Sanchez was to the striker I don't think that necessarily would have ended up as a red, even if a replay showed light between the ball and line - which it hasn't.

Think this was the sort of decision that the "clear and obvious" caveat was inserted for?

 

[GT49er]

I think that the rule that if a part of the ball was touching the line (or part of the line) saved us - it was pretty marginal though.. At the end of the day, the VAR didn't decide to do us over for once. Time to accept that, and move on.

Phew!

 

[Swansman]

Yes, deliberately handling the ball, but not committing a deliberate handball.

I think the semantics should be important.

Obviously as far as refs go they're not. They couldn't wait to give three reds to Fulham when i don't think any of them should have been given.

There has been a few occasions when a player thought the ball was dead, picked it up with his hands and the opponents got awarded a penalty.

Picking the ball up with your hands is always (unless the keeper does it inside his penalty area) a deliberate handball, because he deliberately meant to use his hands to handle the ball. Deliberate handball. The laws of the game says nothing about "if the official reads the mind of the player and concludes he had a feverish dream of being in his bathtub handling his balls or in his penalty area handling the ball, its perfectly fine to just grab it with the hands wherever you want".

We have seen a lot of red cards given for keepers handling the ball outside the area over the years. If the goalkeeper in that situation walks up to the referee and says "I thought I was inside the area", they will say "well that is your problem and bad judgement, off you go".

The Willian incident was more dubious as he had likely no intention to get his ball on the hand (= not deliberately handling the ball with his hands). Rob Sanchez had no other intention than picking the ball up (deliberately handling the ball with his hands whether or not it was a foul and whether or not he intended to commit the foul).