Non Season Ticket Holders Unite - Ticket Plans For Next Season

[hans kraay fan club]

I would imagine that eventually the club will indeed set up some sort of system in the future but given that their priority this summer was to make sure they were able to QUADRUPLE their ST base they may have been otherwise engaged.

Maybe it's just me but I'm getting pretty tired of listening to STH's who seem more concerned about how to shift their ticket rather be excited about actually attending some games. I normally have to miss a few games a season around christmas time and end up giving my ticket to a friend if they can find a use for it, I also rarely accept payment for it, although some people do insist. As I'm concerned I've paid for my ticket and if I can't make a game, then that's my lookout.

I'd be interested to know how many STH's end up selling their ticket on to people they don't know, my bet is that is nowhere near as large as people think.

After this season the club will have a lot more data on to which to base their ticketing strategy and I expect an upgrade then.

I do not disagree with those people who are clamouring for a usable exchange, I think it should be provided as there are plenty of solutions available for them to use. However I think the apocalyptic fears of some supporters that there will be thousands of empty seats at every game are very wide of the mark indeed.

I'm not going to be slating the club unless a lack of such a scheme is actually CONFIRMED. Its all very vague right now.

If nothing adequate is put in place though, I will be very dissappointed in their lack of foresight. Nor would I take "we've been busy" as an excuse. These schemes already exist all over the world. You pay an outside organisation to implement it and its done. There really would be very little effort involved.

And whilst I agree with your point about people SOUNDING like they are intending to miss a lot of games, the reality is that for some people, for geographical / work reasons its simply unavoidable. I attended every home game last season, but my two lads' seats were empty for about 6 games, as evenings are simply too late on a school night - last year I got home about 11.30, and from Falmer I suspect it will be an hour later still.

Surely it makes sense to let somebody else and their child use those spare seats? Its really a no-brainer.

 

[brakespear]

I just don't get this. ST are available for £30 a month or there abouts. How much cheaper could they practically make it? Of course ST exchange should have been soprted by now, but being priced out is not a criticism that can be fairly leveled.

Not everybody can spare £30 a month, no matter how piddling small a figure it might seem to you - I also thought initially that I couldn't and unfortunately by the time I did the sums for the umpteenth time and decided to I could afford it they were all gone.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I just don't get this. ST are available for £30 a month or there abouts. How much cheaper could they practically make it? Of course ST exchange should have been soprted by now, but being priced out is not a criticism that can be fairly leveled.

I do not think CES is suggesting that the season ticket price is too high....more that due to their circumstances they personally cannot afford one and is therefore personally priced out i.e. the club is not pricing him out....his situation is.

 

[Acker79]

I'm sitting with a few friends, I imagine if one of us can't make it, one of us will take charge of their card, so lending it won't be an issue.

I don't imagine many people who might buy one will consider the PSL before making sure they are happy with their seat. I've had some bad experiences with annoying people with previous season ticket placements. I wouldn't want to be stuck in my seat for 50 years with somoene next to me who it's a struggle not to explode at over the season. Not to mention making sure I've got a decent view.

I imagine there will be a 'surge' in psl sales after the first couple of games, once people are sure they like their seat.

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

I do not think CES is suggesting that the season ticket price is too high....more that due to their circumstances they personally cannot afford one and is therefore personally priced out i.e. the club is not pricing him out....his situation is.

Ah - see that now. brakespear, believe me, £30 is not a piddling amount of money to me. Have had my share of joblessness in the last couple of years believe me. However, the point I was making was that the club couldn't have made it much cheaper (and easier with the monthly SO) - not that £30 is a piddling amount of money.

 

[Gazwag]

With only 150 (under 1%) buying a PSL maybe the club will realise it would gain more money scrapping the system and as THPP above making the offical exchange system.

The purchaser will pay full price, the STH will receive a refund less a service charge of say £5 a ticket, the club will make £5 + the differnce between a ST seat and a full price seat (say £10) so for each exchange the club will make an extra £12 (after VAT) per seat per game.

STH holder happy as they will get a small refund for a ticket for a match they couldnt attend, new fan happy as they can get a seat, club happy a extra income + Programme/Food/Drink etc.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

The PSL as explained at the presentations, gives you ownership of the right to buy your ST, thus giving you the rights to sell on that right, if you no longer wanted.

There was never any suggestion of it being connected in any way to match by match ticket sales.

 

[Easy 10]

I was under the impression that it was possible to request a paper ticket printed for a match if you hold a ST card - and then they take the 'voucher' for that match off your card. Obviously this would be much easier to sell on. Am I making this up?

Not quite, because the club want to have the details of the person you are selling the ticket to.

My understandnig is that you contact the club (whether that be online or by phone) to say "I can't make the xxxx match, can I sell the ticket please". If you know who you're selling it to, you give them their details and they are then entered on the clubs database, the club then sends them a ticket for the game. If you're just putting it up for sale to anyone, then they'll leave it open on the ticket exchange until someone logs on / phones up and purcheses it, again giving the club their details so they are then on the database. No doubt there will be some kind of small admin fee involved for either process.

But it would appear this facility is only being made available to those with PSL's.

 

[8ace]

The PSL as explained at the presentations, gives you ownership of the right to buy your ST, thus giving you the rights to sell on that right, if you no longer wanted.

There was never any suggestion of it being connected in any way to match by match ticket sales.

Nothing to stop them moving the goalposts if they could't shifting them though.

 

[clippedgull]

I would imagine that any non PSL ticket exchange wouldn't kick in until the club had sold their 1,000 match tickets and the PSL holders had a chance to shift theirs if required.

Also, if a free for all ticket exchange was implemented would the club refund cash or just apply a credit for the following season towards the renewal of your ticket, or if not renewing then a lump sum at seasons end?

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

If the club already have a computerised ticket exchange system in place for PSLs, I'd suggest it would take little or no effort for them to change it to cater for all STs at this stage in the game. Login with your ST number and password instead of login with your PSL number and password. Then issue the same paper ticket request. Piece of piss.

The problem with this is that they have to employ a real person to do this and that costs money, because that person will inevitably have a completely unpredictable workload from week to week.

Therefore it would be very difficult to keep costs down, either the club has to:

a) Employ them on a casual basis via an agency that could guarantee people when the club needed them - very expensive as the person that turns up might not be 'up to speed' on the computer systems in use.
b) Employ them permanantly, with NI contributions, pensions, fringe benfits ( might need travel to get between Falmer and Queens Road retail outlets for cashing up for people who want to pay in person using hard currency so would need use of a club vehicle which would have to be purchased, taxed and insured ) or would want travel costs of using own vehicle re-imbursed.

And the more people who want to use the scheme, the more people required, and therefore the greater the cost.

If the person turned up, and no-one wanted to use the ticket exchange that week, then that is a weeks salary, NI contributions, pension contribution etc wasted ( yes even if it's an agency person that money still has to be paid out of club accounts - it just gets channelled through a 3rd party who will take a cut of it ). Even if they were 're-deployed' to say stocktaking the club shop, they'd be doing a job that was simply unnecessary. They could hardly be expected to go out on a scouting mission after all, or organise the program being printed, or supervise a Gully's Gang event because that requires CRB checks, they may have no interest in sport whatsoever - if it's a ticket agency that is used for example they may only have to do a BHAFC transaction once in a blue moon amongst all the Glastonbury / Olympics / British Grand Prix / West End Theatre tickets they sell.

Realistically that money would be better spent on giving Gus a bigger playing budget.

So how do the club fund the cost of this extra person or the ticket agency who gets the job ( because no ticket agency is going to do it ex gratia if they plan to stay in business for long ).

Simple.

The fan who wants that extra level of service has to pay for it.

Whether you think £ 500 is a fare price for that service is a decision only you can make. Personally I don't, but I can understand why the club have to put the whole cost unsubsidised on the fan concerned, because, as a service, it has absolutely no effect on our final league position at the end of the season.

Otherwise fans who would never need to use a ticket exchange ( because they can get themselves organised ) would end up paying for those that do. And that really WOULD be unfair.

I think £ 5,000 for the 1901 club is equally poor value for money, but then I don't go to football for a fancy meal out or a social or business network meeting.

Others are happy to pay for it and think it's money well spent.

It's all about choices.

It's the difference in service you get between an economy and first class air fare - one isn't transferable, the other is completely transferable, but at the end of the day you both end up flying with the same Airline in the same plane to the same destination. It's just that the first class fare pays for all those extra people in the ticket office and the airport first class lounge, the extra fuel consumed whilst flying around the heavier seat and in-flight entertainment equipment / masseur / comfy couch plus all the food and champagne that has to be quoffed during the flight and the courtesy car ( and chauffuer ) to the airport.

 

[Crouch End Seagull]

Just to echo some of the above. I don't feel the club is pricing me out just my personal situation and the current demand situation. The club are to be congratulated for making it affordable to buy a season ticket but nothing could make it affordable enough for me. I'm more concerned about away games as it looks like the club are going to employ a loyalty scheme putting season ticket holders at an advantage rather than a membership scheme which puts everyone level.
Why a membership scheme instead of one that gives total priority to STH's?
Being able to afford to go to 5 games a season doesn't make you any less "loyal" than someone who can afford to go to 40.

 

[sully]

The most important thing to me, being a non-STH, is that when I purchase a ticket for a game, the club know about it and it's recorded on my membership account.

I don't know how the "loyalty" system is going to work, but I certainly won't get any prioroty if I "borrow" someone's card for a game.

It would make much more sense if ALL members had a card, and that the tickets could be transferred to other members.

 

[Easy 10]

This is what they do at Fulham:

How to Sell
If you're a season ticket holder and you're unable to attend a particular match, selling your ticket to another Fulham fan couldn't be easier. But remember, you can only sell home stand tickets through the exchange.

1. LOG IN
Since only registered season ticket holders are able to sell their tickets through the official exchange, we'll need to check your club registration details. Log in, either as an existing Seatwave account holder or setup a new account with us, and then let us know your Fulham Football Club account reference and postcode. We'll retrieve your club details which you can double-check to make sure we've got the right member.

2. CHOOSE YOUR MATCH
Browse through the available matches to find the one you're after. Some matches may not yet be open to sell on the exchange as they have not yet sold out on the club's website. Matches that are available will have the "Sell" button clearly displayed. Clicking on "Sell" will take you through the simple process of listing your spare ticket for sale.

3. CHOOSE YOUR PAYMENT METHOD
Once your ticket sells, you will be refunded the equivalent amount of your season ticket per match, calculated pro rata, less a 10% + VAT sellers service charge. When you list your tickets for sale, we'll need to know how you would like this money refunded to you. There is the option of having the money transferred straight into your account or you can be paid via PayPal, if you prefer.

4. SELL YOUR TICKET
Once your ticket has been listed for sale, there's really nothing left for you to do except sit back and wait for your ticket to sell. Once your ticket sells, all the hard work will be done for you. Fulham Football Club will deactivate your ticket for the match you have sold off your membership card. A new ticket for the bought match will be issued to your buyer and you will be refunded your money.

It's really all that simple.

5. FAQ
Q: How do I remove my ticket for sale from the FFC Exchange?
A: Simply login to your account and your tickets can be taken off sale simply by you.

Q: Will my ticket be used by another FFC fan? I wouldn’t want a supporter from another team using it
A: The Exchange is only open to FFC members so you seat is guaranteed to be filled by another FFC fanatic!

Q: I have a junior season ticket – do i have to sell this to another Junior member?
A: No. All members can buy any tickets on the FFC exchange.

Q: How long up to a game can I list my tickets?
A: Tickets can be listed right up until the game goes off-sale (usually at 3pm on the last working day before the game).

The one caveat seems to be that this only kicks in for matches which are actually sold out. But still, seems like a straightforward enough system so it most certainly CAN be done quite easily. No mention of PSL provisions for them.

 

[Hotchilidog]

I would imagine that any non PSL ticket exchange wouldn't kick in until the club had sold their 1,000 match tickets and the PSL holders had a chance to shift theirs if required.

Also, if a free for all ticket exchange was implemented would the club refund cash or just apply a credit for the following season towards the renewal of your ticket, or if not renewing then a lump sum at seasons end?

Indeed. There are whole variety of things for the club to consider implementing such a scheme. I wouldn't imagine the club will do anything at all until they knew what the take up was for the match by match sales was.

Next season will be a big learning curve for the Albion as we have not only moved up a league on the pitch but several leagues off it. It seems harsh but a ticket exchange will be low priority initially as they have to make sure everything else works first before moving onwards and, one hopes, ever upwards.

STH can still make their own arrangements this season and for most I suspect that would be enough, even if it were not for some.

This will all become moot one we are sh*t again, just enjoy the good times while they last.

 

[Carrot Cruncher]

To me it seems that the now all the ST's are now sold, the marketing onus for the summer will be trying to flog these bloody PSL's to people. Therefore any kind of firm plan for ST holders without PSL's to pass on tickets will be DELIBERATELY flakey.

I bet there will be a proper scheme in place by the beginning of August at the latest.

 

[Easy 10]

Here's the link by the way for Fulhams ticket exchange

Fulham FC Ticket Exchange Tickets on Seatwave.com


All run by an outside agency called 'Seatwave.com'. Looks like an absolute piece of piss. This is EXACTLY what the Albion should be doing.

 

[rool]

There does seem to be a really large shift from the previous regime, which I thought to be very chaotic, run like a small personal business but often had the fans best interests at heart to a more professional, corporate style whereby everything is to the benefit of the club with fans being merely a revenue unit to be exploited to the full.
I guess it's just the reality of modern football has just arrived.

 

[sully]

Here's the link by the way for Fulhams ticket exchange

Fulham FC Ticket Exchange Tickets on Seatwave.com


All run by an outside agency called 'Seatwave.com'. Looks like an absolute piece of piss. This is EXACTLY what the Albion should be doing.

Seatwave is a ticket exchange for all sorts of events, so Fulham's scheme is just piggy-backing onto the existing system. I've used Seatwave several times in the past and it's a pretty slick and simple system.

No reason why the Albion couldn't set up something similar. I can't see why anyone could complain if it only kicks in after the club have sold all the remaining available tickets. This just guarantees maximum income to the club.

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

With only 150 (under 1%) buying a PSL maybe the club will realise it would gain more money scrapping the system and as THPP above making the offical exchange system.

The purchaser will pay full price, the STH will receive a refund less a service charge of say £5 a ticket, the club will make £5 + the differnce between a ST seat and a full price seat (say £10) so for each exchange the club will make an extra £12 (after VAT) per seat per game.

STH holder happy as they will get a small refund for a ticket for a match they couldnt attend, new fan happy as they can get a seat, club happy a extra income + Programme/Food/Drink etc.

The club aren't getting any EXTRA income from programme / food / drink because the unsold program will go to the club shop ( where it will eventually be sold ), the food goes back in the freezer, and the drink goes back in the fridge. Therefore all that is happening is that the club is probably going to sell the products to someone else at a later date ( and it will probably go to a guest of a corporate sponsor who WILL pay for it at the next game ).


Indeed there is absolutely NO reason to think the 'casual fan' who replaces the STH would want food or a programme/ merchandise anyway, more likely that they WON'T buy one, because they are LESS able to afford it, and LESS committed to the club as a whole.

Where a 'casual' replaces a STH, turnover might ( or might not ) increase, but there is no change to the bottom line of the accounts. Profit and turnover are not the same.