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McGhee got it very WRONG tonight...
- Thread starter Trigger
- Start date
Exiled in Exeter
New member
perseus said:
You are right, we were lucky Friio wasn’t playing!
I have heard it suggested the poor performance was mainly down to playing the new players who have not settled into their roles yet. But Plymouth also had new players playing who would not have known their roles.
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Re: Re: Re: McGhee got it very WRONG tonight...
No. They go hand in hand. If players don't do their jobs it doesn't matter what tactics you use.
Trigger said:Course some of the players are to blame, that's a seperate issue, feel free to start a thread on that... This thread is about McGhee's tactics.
No. They go hand in hand. If players don't do their jobs it doesn't matter what tactics you use.
London Irish
Well-known member
Easy 10 said:
But that begs the question how we can realistically do that without our best midfielder, our best forward, our best midfield ball winner and the targetman who we have adapted our system of play to since our last Withdean thrashing by Bristol.
Just piously "hoping" we can attack and score more goals than we concede is simplistic nonsense and has not been McGhee's approach since he took charge of this football club. But suddenly now everyone knows better than the guy who acheived a miracle taking us up.
I was worried that our 2 goals on Saturday would lead people into the simplistic belief that we are a decent attacking side. We are not - those 2 goals were blunders by Reading that a well-drilled side like Plymouth were never going to make.
McGhee was right to concentrate on trying for a 0-0 or a 1-0 than the 4-3 that every adrenalin junkie on here seems to want.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: McGhee got it very WRONG tonight...
4-5-1 does not have to be negative. We WON Division 3 playing it. Reading got to the play-offs using it.
You have to play the best players at your disposal in the best formation for them. We do not have an adequate partner for Molango at the moment.
McGhee can tell the players what to do all he likes but its up to them to implement it.
The brand new midfield didn't help much. With hindsight he may have started Hart/Jones. McGhee is learning about this teams ability at this level too.
Eedit: He started with Currie and Jarrett because he wanted us to pass it and be more attacking. So why would he then want to be defencive? He doesn't. He wanted to attack.
Desert Orchid said:
4-5-1 does not have to be negative. We WON Division 3 playing it. Reading got to the play-offs using it.
You have to play the best players at your disposal in the best formation for them. We do not have an adequate partner for Molango at the moment.
McGhee can tell the players what to do all he likes but its up to them to implement it.
The brand new midfield didn't help much. With hindsight he may have started Hart/Jones. McGhee is learning about this teams ability at this level too.
Eedit: He started with Currie and Jarrett because he wanted us to pass it and be more attacking. So why would he then want to be defencive? He doesn't. He wanted to attack.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: McGhee got it very WRONG tonight...
The midfield was awful but the players are midfielders who should be adequate. The probelm was we had no leader in midfield to keep the shape. They were headless chickens.
Desert Orchid said:
The midfield was awful but the players are midfielders who should be adequate. The probelm was we had no leader in midfield to keep the shape. They were headless chickens.
pasty
A different kind of pasty
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: McGhee got it very WRONG tonight...
Which re-opens the debate about why we can't seem to get any decent pre-season games. I understand we appear to be restricted getting pre-season friendlies at Withdean, but even away from home, surely a better pre season build-up should involve playing teams of a higher calibre than Worthing, Crawley, Southend, Cambridge etc.
How can MM possibly gauge how the team are going to react and perform in this division by playing non-league and lower division teams ?
Turkey said:
Which re-opens the debate about why we can't seem to get any decent pre-season games. I understand we appear to be restricted getting pre-season friendlies at Withdean, but even away from home, surely a better pre season build-up should involve playing teams of a higher calibre than Worthing, Crawley, Southend, Cambridge etc.
How can MM possibly gauge how the team are going to react and perform in this division by playing non-league and lower division teams ?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: McGhee got it very WRONG tonight...
We actually had two shots.
McGhee said he wanted those players because they were more attacking.
If they don't play well he can do little about it. Apart from sub them.
The point is he didn't go out with a negative frame of mind. He wanted to win this match. To play Harty would have been a negative decision as we've five in midfield we should have enough cover for the defence anyway so that quality wouldnt be needed from Hart. In 4-5-1 the wingers shouldn't have to do much defending.
Desert Orchid said:
We actually had two shots.
McGhee said he wanted those players because they were more attacking.
If they don't play well he can do little about it. Apart from sub them.
The point is he didn't go out with a negative frame of mind. He wanted to win this match. To play Harty would have been a negative decision as we've five in midfield we should have enough cover for the defence anyway so that quality wouldnt be needed from Hart. In 4-5-1 the wingers shouldn't have to do much defending.
London Irish
Well-known member
Desert Orchid said:
The likes of Chippy, Charlie and Rodger when they come back from suspension and injury will prove you wrong - as the team proved the many NSC critics wrong last season when apparently it wasn't possible to get promoted playing a defensive long-ball game
I just want to post how I think McGhee intended today's tactics to work.
Reid should have supported Virgo.
Mayo should have supported Harding.
Nicolas should have been both supporting the defence and helping out the attack.
So what went wrong?
We didn't hold our shape. This lead to the problems.
Currie and Jarrett should have been far more attacking. Currie couldn't attack though because the midfield was pulled all over the place. Currie had to take on defencive duties which he was reluctant to do becuase it wasn't his job. If he defended then the team lost its shape but if he didn't we were over ran. Jarrett ended up in a similar situation but without the expirience to deal with it. He looked lost.
The defence was too deep which also kept us on the back foot. This was partly because Plymouth knew exactly how to expose Butters pace. They did this straight away and we were scared to push up.
Who deserves credit? I thought Kuipers did fine. Nicolas stood out because he was one of the few who did their job properly. Mayo put himself about. It didn't always come off but he scraped for everything.
Who doesn't? Jarrett didn't push the Plymouth right back, back, enough. Neither did Currie although was due to Reid. Reid didn't support Virgo at all well. Cullip didn't organise the players very well but I think he was just overwhelmed. Normally Chippy/Charlie would keep the midfield in line.
The tactics didn't work but I think they were the best we had available to us. It was just one of those days when it didn't come off.
It's no suprise to me that both Reid and Jarrett were subsituted. Jarrett may have been our only attacking threat but his overal play wasn't all that.
Code:
Kuipers
Virgo Cullip Butters Harding
Reid Nicolas Mayo
Currie Jarrett
MolangoReid should have supported Virgo.
Mayo should have supported Harding.
Nicolas should have been both supporting the defence and helping out the attack.
So what went wrong?
We didn't hold our shape. This lead to the problems.
Currie and Jarrett should have been far more attacking. Currie couldn't attack though because the midfield was pulled all over the place. Currie had to take on defencive duties which he was reluctant to do becuase it wasn't his job. If he defended then the team lost its shape but if he didn't we were over ran. Jarrett ended up in a similar situation but without the expirience to deal with it. He looked lost.
The defence was too deep which also kept us on the back foot. This was partly because Plymouth knew exactly how to expose Butters pace. They did this straight away and we were scared to push up.
Who deserves credit? I thought Kuipers did fine. Nicolas stood out because he was one of the few who did their job properly. Mayo put himself about. It didn't always come off but he scraped for everything.
Who doesn't? Jarrett didn't push the Plymouth right back, back, enough. Neither did Currie although was due to Reid. Reid didn't support Virgo at all well. Cullip didn't organise the players very well but I think he was just overwhelmed. Normally Chippy/Charlie would keep the midfield in line.
The tactics didn't work but I think they were the best we had available to us. It was just one of those days when it didn't come off.
It's no suprise to me that both Reid and Jarrett were subsituted. Jarrett may have been our only attacking threat but his overal play wasn't all that.
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London Irish
Well-known member
To follow that helpful exposition by Turkey:
So this was the great alternative?
What is the problem with this team?
We have a half-fit player in Reid protecting a big area on the right side of our pitch. On the left we have Jarrett also asked to perform the extra defensive duties associated with 4-4-2, despite the fact that hardly anyone of us have seen him make a well-timed tackle yet.
Plymouth overwhelmed our 5-man midfield, what would they have done with that lot?
We are asked to believe that two very similar-ish players up front who are better runners than ball protectors would have been able to hold the ball longer to relieve this under-pressure midfield. Despite the fact that there is hardly any evidence that these two players are any good at holding and shielding the ball for long periods.
The reality is that the ball would have returned back just as quickly from Molango as from Molango/Robinson, OGH and Jarrett are not accurate passers and neither was Reid tonight. Plymouth would then have had even more space to attack without the extra man Mayo in midfield.
It is quite possible that the defeat would have been even worse with this more defensively weaker 4-4-2 system. But it is certainly overwhelmingly likely that the defeat would have been of similar-ish proportions.
In this talk about tactical systems, people have forgotten the iron law of football, that players are more important than systems. If you have a squad underperforming due to injuries, suspensions and new players who haven't gelled with their team-mates, then all the clever systems cannot mask the lack of quality in key areas of the pitch.
McGhee gave it his best shot tonight in trying to mask the lack of quality we had on the pitch. He may try a different tack on Saturday, or he may not. But anyone to confidently say he DEFINITELY got it wrong tonight really is talking out of their arse, the evidence is simply not there.
Code:
Kuipers
Virgo Cullip Butters Harding
Hart Reid Nicolas Jarrett
Molango RobinsonSo this was the great alternative?
What is the problem with this team?
We have a half-fit player in Reid protecting a big area on the right side of our pitch. On the left we have Jarrett also asked to perform the extra defensive duties associated with 4-4-2, despite the fact that hardly anyone of us have seen him make a well-timed tackle yet.
Plymouth overwhelmed our 5-man midfield, what would they have done with that lot?
We are asked to believe that two very similar-ish players up front who are better runners than ball protectors would have been able to hold the ball longer to relieve this under-pressure midfield. Despite the fact that there is hardly any evidence that these two players are any good at holding and shielding the ball for long periods.
The reality is that the ball would have returned back just as quickly from Molango as from Molango/Robinson, OGH and Jarrett are not accurate passers and neither was Reid tonight. Plymouth would then have had even more space to attack without the extra man Mayo in midfield.
It is quite possible that the defeat would have been even worse with this more defensively weaker 4-4-2 system. But it is certainly overwhelmingly likely that the defeat would have been of similar-ish proportions.
In this talk about tactical systems, people have forgotten the iron law of football, that players are more important than systems. If you have a squad underperforming due to injuries, suspensions and new players who haven't gelled with their team-mates, then all the clever systems cannot mask the lack of quality in key areas of the pitch.
McGhee gave it his best shot tonight in trying to mask the lack of quality we had on the pitch. He may try a different tack on Saturday, or he may not. But anyone to confidently say he DEFINITELY got it wrong tonight really is talking out of their arse, the evidence is simply not there.
Tom Hark Preston Park
Will Post For Cash
- Jul 6, 2003
- 70,899
Molango looked horribly isolated upfront. Playing 4-5-1 at home just seemed like a lack of ambition. It wasn't all bad news tho. Jarrett looked quick as shit off a stick. With Leon back, and also Gary Hart and Jake as options, we've got the making of a genuinely exciting, if lightweight, attack there. All it needs now is to educate The Big Hoofers into playing the ball along the ground to them. There's also the fact that due to the very late appearance on the scene of the four new signings on the pitch, they're still a set of more or less strangers who have not meshed into a team. Give it time, it'll come good - or I'm a Former Dutch Marine (Chef)
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London Irish
Well-known member
Big Trev changed our season last year. Our top loan player ever according to the match prog tonight. I wouldn't disagree.
After watching our first 2 games, you do get a little worried about a Maheta-Leon partnership. But Leon I feel does have the ability to hold the ball better than all our other forwards, so could bring Maheta into the game better than our midfield did tonight.
After watching our first 2 games, you do get a little worried about a Maheta-Leon partnership. But Leon I feel does have the ability to hold the ball better than all our other forwards, so could bring Maheta into the game better than our midfield did tonight.
Half Time Pies
Well-known member
London Irish said:
To be honest the rubbish you have talked on this thread is symptomatic of many Oatway loving long ball merchants and MM himself. You people must be blind.
The min i saw the team sheet i knew we would lose this game playing a 5 man midfield at HOME against a team that only went up this year, and with our home record, seems unbelievable. Does knowone remeber that we beat Plymouth 3-1 last year with a 3 man forward line?!
The fact is we do have players who can pass the ball and create but Maghee insists on playing negative football. Can anyone of you long ball merchants look beyond the playoff final to remeber how many terrible games we were forced to watch with Mghee unable to change the formation from two defensive central midfield players - Swindon particularly springs to mind!
When i saw Oatway was out injured i thought great, MM might get someone in to the centre who can pass the ball and isnt in footballing terms inept, but no, who does he replace hm with F*****G Mayo!
What you are saying London Irish is we cant compete at home with anyone in the championship (including Plymouth) and should therefore shut up shop and hope for a point -
Well what i say to you is thats Utter BOLLOCKS!
London Irish
Well-known member
Do you feel better now. I couldn't read any positive alternatives in your rant, who are these midfield ball-players trapped in our reserves who we could have brought on to stroke the ball about and outpass Plymouth then? 
You quote my criticism of the 4-4-2 but then don't respond to any of the points I raised in it :thud: When you work out why it's UTTER BOLLOCKS, let me know
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Icy Gull
Back on the rollercoaster
- Jul 5, 2003
- 72,015
NOW I understand why Millwall fans thought McGhee's team selections were bizarre. I didn't go so can't comment on the performance but I have never seen so many posts from fans who think that they could have selected a better team/formation. I fear that this will turn into "Magoo out" if it continues for many more games.
"Magoo out" is not really an option ,even if we get relegated is it?Lack of funds and quality players is the problem, we are the paupers of the division and we are not going to be able to play fast flowing attacking football very often this season, not even at home.
We may have beaten Plymouth at home last season, but they won the league by a country mile and are obviously not the weak also rans we hoped they might be.
"Magoo out" is not really an option ,even if we get relegated is it?Lack of funds and quality players is the problem, we are the paupers of the division and we are not going to be able to play fast flowing attacking football very often this season, not even at home.
We may have beaten Plymouth at home last season, but they won the league by a country mile and are obviously not the weak also rans we hoped they might be.
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