Calais

[Creaky]

There is no simple answer to this. I still think a good step would be open a border processing offices in Calais to process these people...if they can be proved to be genuine refugees, let them over in a controlled way, if not , they must be dispursed through Europe. Trouble is the rest of Europe, especially the eastern bloc countries do not want any of them, so it's left to the western countries and Scandinavians to resettle this huge migration of people.

Isn't that 'solution' a red herring. Once an individual is granted leave to stay in an EU country they are then free to move wherever they wish within the EU, including the UK.

The same applies to the idea of the French processing those in Calais. If they decided to grant them leave to stay or citizenship then those same immigrants could quite legally just buy a ticket on Eurostar.

 

[Soulman]

Who are you talking to?

I am still waiting for those illusive stats that show how many of the people at Calais are Asylum Seekers and how many are illegal immigrants (and how many are terrorists for Soulman). 10 pages and still no body can provide any! Yet so many people what to base an action on the assumption that they are wrong uns.

Or should i just accept that you can SEE this information from Hastings?

What part of it's a French problem do you not get. What part of the fact that up to 800 a day are trying to enter this country ILLEGALLY by stowing on lorries etc, whether they be "wrong uns" or not. What part of if they are allowed in for your idea of "processing" that thousands more will turn up at Calais, do you not get.
What part of the fact that the people that are worried actually LIVE here and will bare the brunt of the influx if it is not stopped....do you not get.

 

[Soulman]

Isn't that 'solution' a red herring. Once an individual is granted leave to stay in an EU country they are then free to move wherever they wish within the EU, including the UK.

Surely they are not European people and may have been granted to stay in a certain EU country, surely it is up to the UK if they are allowed to stay in this EU country.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

What part of it's a French problem do you not get. What part of the fact that up to 800 a day are trying to enter this country ILLEGALLY by stowing on lorries etc, whether they be "wrong uns" or not. What part of if they are allowed in for your idea of "processing" that thousands more will turn up at Calais, do you not get.
What part of the fact that the people that are worried actually LIVE here and will bare the brunt of the influx if it is not stopped....do you not get.

Do you know what, I fear it is too late. If the EU, our government where serious about sorting this situation out they would be turning boats away from Italy and Greece today, they would be clearing Calais today. They would be processing millions of people here and in the EU and deporting them back to where they came from. It's never going to end, and I dread to think what the UK and EU is going to be like in another 20 years time. The UK will become an over populated shit hole used to dealing with everyone else's political and religious problems, and for us nothing will change, we will still keep being told how wonderful everything is.

 

[BadFish]

What part of it's a French problem do you not get. What part of the fact that up to 800 a day are trying to enter this country ILLEGALLY by stowing on lorries etc, whether they be "wrong uns" or not. What part of if they are allowed in for your idea of "processing" that thousands more will turn up at Calais, do you not get.
What part of the fact that the people that are worried actually LIVE here and will bare the brunt of the influx if it is not stopped....do you not get.

Well I will let you wait for the French to sort out the French problem then (don't hold your breath!)

If it is a French problem as you say then your last paragraph makes no sense. The fact that your last paragraph does make sense says that it is a UK problem too. Seems to me that waiting for the French to solve the problem isn't going to get you very far. Which means the terrorists are going to keep strapping themselves to lorries and heading your way.

 

[Hastings gull]

Aaaah..so there is the nub of your argument...they are all terrorists over in Calais! Do you not think that terrorist organisations that have billions of dollars stashed away would fly their people in on false passports and documents, rather that take it as chance that they might get over without falling off the back of an axle and getting crushed.

My company has an office in Houston and the amount of illegals in that city numbers around 500k at a conservative estimate. Our 3k odd is a mere splash in the ocean even if you think that Italy and Greece are taking thousands and Syria alone has had 2 million people move to neighbouring countries to avoid being killed.

There is no simple answer to this. I still think a good step would be open a border processing offices in Calais to process these people...if they can be proved to be genuine refugees, let them over in a controlled way, if not , they must be dispursed through Europe. Trouble is the rest of Europe, especially the eastern bloc countries do not want any of them, so it's left to the western countries and Scandinavians to resettle this huge migration of people.

Whilst I would not presume to dispute your figure on Houston, I think that your "our 3K odd" is rather an understatement to lend a bit of credence to your argument. I also feel that you are as naïve as BF, and that certainly takes some doing. So an office in Calais will ascertain whether Mohammed from Mogadishu is a genuine refugee or not - do you not think that maybe said person might just tell a little incey wincey fib, and in any case how would you then check on this, with thousands also waiting. And they are then dispersed, as they happily get on the bus to go to Hungary.I do, however,appreciate that you are suggesting a solution, rather than vaguely saying something has to be done.

 

[Zebedee]

Perhaps we can find a habitable island in the middle of nowhere and ship all the calais undesirables off there, together with any more who decide to make the journey. The whole issue is getting beyond a joke.

 

[Soulman]

Do you know what, I fear it is too late. If the EU, our government where serious about sorting this situation out they would be turning boats away from Italy and Greece today, they would be clearing Calais today. They would be processing millions of people here and in the EU and deporting them back to where they came from. It's never going to end, and I dread to think what the UK and EU is going to be like in another 20 years time. The UK will become an over populated shit hole used to dealing with everyone else's political and religious problems, and for us nothing will change, we will still keep being told how wonderful everything is.

Yep, then i wonder what our children and grandchildren will think of our generation.....probably a lot less than we think of our previous generations........turning in their graves springs to mind. Meanwhile we have those that left this country for a better life lecturing us on how and what we should do.....priceless eh.

 

[BadFish]

Whilst I would not presume to dispute your figure on Houston, I think that your "our 3K odd" is rather an understatement to lend a bit of credence to your argument. I also feel that you are as naïve as BF, and that certainly takes some doing. So an office in Calais will ascertain whether Mohammed from Mogadishu is a genuine refugee or not - do you not think that maybe said person might just tell a little incey wincey fib, and in any case how would you then check on this, with thousands also waiting. And they are then dispersed, as they happily get on the bus to go to Hungary.I do, however,appreciate that you are suggesting a solution, rather than vaguely saying something has to be done.

Pastafarian's stats earlier in the thread prove that you have an application process that works and that people cannot just lie to get in. What on earth makes you assume that everyone can just lie and get in?

 

[Hastings gull]

Who are you talking to?

I am still waiting for those illusive stats that show how many of the people at Calais are Asylum Seekers and how many are illegal immigrants (and how many are terrorists for Soulman). 10 pages and still no body can provide any! Yet so many people what to base an action on the assumption that they are wrong uns.

The fact that you are waiting for something that would be nigh on impossible shows your total ignorance of what is happening here. Your average immigrant will say whatever they need to get into the UK, and so collecting stats as to who falls into what category is a useless exercise. By the way, I don't recall anyone saying that they are wrong'uns necessarily, just that the scale is getting out of hand. Soulman does have a point -it is highly likely that a small minority will turn against us, as we have already witnessed. To expect anything else is very foolish.

Or should i just accept that you can SEE this information from Hastings?

What a stupid statement - you know exactly what I mean.

 

[Soulman]

Pastafarian's stats earlier in the thread prove that you have an application process that works and that people cannot just lie to get in. What on earth makes you assume that everyone can just lie and get in?

I would have thought just these two examples might make us "assume" that many would/could lie.
Omar Bakri and Abu Hamza.

 

[BadFish]

[/B]

What a stupid statement - you know exactly what I mean.

remind me again of your solution to solve this problem?

 

[BadFish]

I would have thought just these two examples might make us "assume" that many would/could lie.
Omar Bakri and Abu Hamza.

Many will lie and some will get away with it however 68.5 last year were denied refugee status which suggest that the system is doing okay.

you are suggesting that the process doesn't work based on two examples. (has Bakri been granted asylum?) Whereas Pasta's stats say that last year 8375 lied and were denied access.

 

[Soulman]

remind me again of your solution to solve this problem?

The solution has been put up many times, the solution as many see it who live here.
So again. Stop the migration across MANY borders before they get to Calais, the reason is plain why they want to travel up to 18months to get to that point. Close the loopholes that make this country so attractive. Patrol our borders with the armed forces if necessary, i think the French may act if they realised that they could not pass on the problem, which could take it back to a processing system in central Europe.
This can be funded by all the EU member states in a central area/areas and part of our 55m a day could be contributed.
These countries that are at war need to take responsibility and try for peace if they really want it, the problem starts off in their countries.

 

[carlzeiss]

Interesting documentary from Al Jazeera on the plight of African migrants .

[yt]HOYUZJWkilk[/YT]

 

[BadFish]

The solution has been put up many times, the solution as many see it who live here.
So again. Stop the migration across MANY borders before they get to Calais, the reason is plain why they want to travel up to 18months to get to that point. Close the loopholes that make this country so attractive. Patrol our borders with the armed forces if necessary, i think the French may act if they realised that they could not pass on the problem, which could take it back to a processing system in central Europe.
This can be funded by all the EU member states in a central area/areas and part of our 55m a day could be contributed.
These countries that are at war need to take responsibility and try for peace if they really want it, the problem starts off in their countries.

What about the genuine refugees?

Hang on I was asking Hastings Gull, we talked about your solution earlier didn't we?

 

[Soulman]

Many will lie and some will get away with it however 68.5 last year were denied refugee status which suggest that the system is doing okay.

you are suggesting that the process doesn't work based on two examples. (has Bakri been granted asylum?) Whereas Pasta's stats say that last year 8375 lied and were denied access.

"(has Bakri been granted asylum?)"

Bakri arrived in the United Kingdom in the mid-eighties and was later granted political asylum. It took a lot of time and money to deport him.

 

[Soulman]

What about the genuine refugees?

The process centre in central EU, if they are genuine they can head there instead of trying to illegally enter the UK by stowing on lorries etc.

 

[BigGully]

What about the genuine refugees?

Dealt with at the very first border they cross, for me it diminishes their 'genuine' status when the cross multiple european borders without claiming asylum, it seems they then become economic migrants.

At some point countries would need to sanction and prevent illegal movement, it would then prevent others making the same migration if they knew they were unlikely to succeed.

It doesnt then follow that we give up on humanitarian issues, but we deal with it on the ground in their own countries, if there are those seeking genuine asylum then due process can take place.

It seems ridiculous that you let 10000's move without sanction or challenge just in case there a a few 100 that might be genuine.

 

[Hastings gull]

remind me again of your solution to solve this problem?

You either want reminding or not. If you need to be reminded again, then the chances are that you already know! Page 7 post 69.