Star Wars: The Force Awakens - with Spoilers - discussion thread

[Bold Seagull]

Star Wars and Empire Strikes back were 8/9 out of 10

Revenge of the Sith and Return of the Jedi 7ish

Attack of the clones and Phantom menace 5/6 ish

ESB still the 9/10 best film of the series for me. Dark, desperate, emotional. TFA and ANH probably level pegging on an 8. Agree, ROTH and ROTS hitting the 7ish. Just interesting to know when someone calls out the latest, what their thoughts on the others were.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

So anyone who enjoyed the movie is easily duped??

You are taking this far too seriously.

Snoke remarks to Ren that he felt a disturbance in the force after Rey flew the Falcon. So presumably the force gave her a lot of assistance to make her escape and continued to do so throughout the film.

Anyone who thinks Rey is a credible character the way she's been written into the film is easily duped yes.

I think it's a shit character. Or are people not allowed to think that?

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Because Anakin had no character, he was a walking plot device, who couldn't act.

Rey has developed more interest and character (IMHO) in this one film than they ever were able to develop (without forcing it down our throats) in the 3 Prequels with Anakin.

It also helps all of the characters that they are in an interesting story, without comedy racist rabbits, CGI everything and a plot that's about taxation of trade routes!

Rey is a pretty girl. That's how they get around people criticising the characters way overpowered ways.

Anyone who questions it, the white knights charge in to defend the character.

 

[Bold Seagull]

The force isn't dormant. Ren is using it. He killed a bunch of other people VERY recently who had it. So your theory of "it awakens" isn't right.

Dormant suggests it's been unused or untrained in a long time.

As pointed out, Anakin was a rubbish character, why is Ren excused from being looked upon as such?

Ren only used the dark side of the force. I think it has been clear through the series that the good and dark sides of the force are effectively separate entities, you're either on the good, or on the dark, e.g. you go down the dark side, forever it will control your destiny etc.

So the good side, knowing no one is using it, is dormant, it's been unused since Luke gave up training, we don't know if that was when Ren was 8, 14, 18 years ago - we have to assume he's gone down the dark path for sometime though, and that Luke is in hiding for sometime.

 

[One Love]

Anyone who thinks Rey is a credible character the way she's been written into the film is easily duped yes.

I think it's a shit character. Or are people not allowed to think that?

They can think what they like. However the point you seem to be making is that no-one should enjoy the film based on your standards and not their own. I went to see it to enjoy myself not to analyse the character development.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Rey is a pretty girl. That's how they get around people criticising the characters way overpowered ways.

Anyone who questions it, the white knights charge in to defend the character.

It's not white knights, or popcorn sloths, or people easily duped, or....oh hang on, you've pretty much arrogantly tried to insult anyone who might disagree with your reactionary one liners.

You get some explanation back as to why people didn't agree with you, and it's she's a pretty girl, you're all duped...seriously, white knights, you muppet.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

They can think what they like. However the point you seem to be making is that no-one should enjoy the film based on your standards and not their own. I went to see it to enjoy myself not to analyse the character development.

Good for you. You never ever critique films then, fair enough.

 

[BBassic]

Can't we all just get along?

Here's why I enjoyed it: Star Wars, light sabers, pew pew pew lasers, space ships, little robots, big robots, Han f**king Solo!

*mic drop*

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Anyone who thinks Rey is a credible character the way she's been written into the film is easily duped yes.

I think it's a shit character. Or are people not allowed to think that?

Sounds like loads of us were duped then, as I loved Rey (as well as most every other character). I feel so ashamed of my stupidity.

And do you know what - no matter how hard you try to convince me that your opinion is fact, and correct, I will continue to disagree. I think she is a mysterious character, yes, with an as yet un-explored back-story, but I can accept the living for 15? years alone as a scavenger on a planet full of discarded technology, crappy old junk space ship and other machinery, she will be very adept at

1. Looking after herself in a fight
2. Able to fly any of the ship left laying around the settlement she lived nearby and visited daily
3. Knew how to fly the MF, having been involved to some extent in performing repairs on it
4. Under extreme duress, by a raw and not-fully trained force user, was able to call upon her dormant force skills to initially stop Klyo Ren from reading her mind, and even fight back mentally.

In fact Kylo's errors were all around him giving her clues as to the potential of the force. He basically showed her that via the force, you can delve into other's minds and even control them. He was able to freeze Rey in the woods near Mas's palace, tried to extract memories from her also. She is clearly (as yet not explained) very powerful with the force, which she has not needed to use in Jakku, but he's triggered the Awakening in her.

Later on, the forest, after the wounded Kylo has almost killed Finn, he once again makes the mistake of showing Rey that you can retrieve things using the force, hence she takes this as a clue that she might be able to do it - which she succeeds, and of course, finally, whilst fighting Kylo AGAIN makes the mistake of mentioning training her in the force, which AGAIN reminds her that she can use the force whilst fighting... as Mas says, just close your eyes and you will hear it.

And Kylo Ren is not a fully trained force user, and he's badly wounded by Chewie's shot to the side - of course it's possible that some strong with the force, if untrained, with righteous indignation and anger on her side could possibly defeat him. I'm sure he's lost quite a bit of blood by then.

So, in summary, she is credible, mysterious but credible.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Rey is a pretty girl. That's how they get around people criticising the characters way overpowered ways.

Anyone who questions it, the white knights charge in to defend the character.

Stop digging mate.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

It's not white knights, or popcorn sloths, or people easily duped, or....oh hang on, you've pretty much arrogantly tried to insult anyone who might disagree with your reactionary one liners.

You get some explanation back as to why people didn't agree with you, and it's she's a pretty girl, you're all duped...seriously, white knights, you muppet.[/QUOTE]

Well it's apparent that nobody is allowed to pass comment on the character because as soon as someone does someone has a crack at them. Added that anyone who looked into the film in a bit more depth needs to "chill out" and make all kinds of reasons up for excusing anything stupid and just accept it. Because you know, that's what the most awesome film fans do.

Look at how much time you've had a tear over someone critiquing a character. You want muppet, you own it.

 

[Bold Seagull]

[MENTION=236]Papa Lazarou[/MENTION] - you white knight, easily duped, popcorn sloth!!!

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Stop digging mate.

Digging what? Rey is a comical Mary Sue.

Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

You get some explanation back as to why people didn't agree with you, and it's she's a pretty girl, you're all duped...seriously, white knights, you muppet.

Well it's apparent that nobody is allowed to pass comment on the character because as soon as someone does someone has a crack at them. Added that anyone who looked into the film in a bit more depth needs to "chill out" and make all kinds of reasons up for excusing anything stupid and just accept it. Because you know, that's what the most awesome film fans do.

Look at how much time you've had a tear over someone critiquing a character. You want muppet, you own it.

And off you go again - I've looked at THIS film in more depth than any film I've seen in many many years. I've read all reviews I can find, joined in discussions on the unanswered questions it raises, and generally absorbed thoughts and theories about all the characters and the film in general.

And yet, somehow, I still don't agree with you. Odd eh?

I think people won't react as they do to you, if you weren't quite some pompous and arrogant. Remember you opinion is just that, just an opinion.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Well it's apparent that nobody is allowed to pass comment on the character because as soon as someone does someone has a crack at them. Added that anyone who looked into the film in a bit more depth needs to "chill out" and make all kinds of reasons up for excusing anything stupid and just accept it. Because you know, that's what the most awesome film fans do.

Look at how much time you've had a tear over someone critiquing a character. You want muppet, you own it.

You haven't critiqued a character at all! I've given you critiques, [MENTION=236]Papa Lazarou[/MENTION] has given you a critique, I've not seen anything from you that has any weight to it whatsoever. Full of just one liners. You've been provoked into giving something back, and all you've managed is arrogant insults. Seriously, I love talking about Star Wars, could do it for ages, what you've demonstrated is that you don't. You just like playing the clever dick, but never wanting to go any deeper.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Sounds like loads of us were duped then, as I loved Rey (as well as most every other character). I feel so ashamed of my stupidity.

And do you know what - no matter how hard you try to convince me that your opinion is fact, and correct, I will continue to disagree. I think she is a mysterious character, yes, with an as yet un-explored back-story, but I can accept the living for 15? years alone as a scavenger on a planet full of discarded technology, crappy old junk space ship and other machinery, she will be very adept at

1. Looking after herself in a fight
2. Able to fly any of the ship left laying around the settlement she lived nearby and visited daily
3. Knew how to fly the MF, having been involved to some extent in performing repairs on it
4. Under extreme duress, by a raw and not-fully trained force user, was able to call upon her dormant force skills to initially stop Klyo Ren from reading her mind, and even fight back mentally.

In fact Kylo's errors were all around him giving her clues as to the potential of the force. He basically showed her that via the force, you can delve into other's minds and even control them. He was able to freeze Rey in the woods near Mas's palace, tried to extract memories from her also. She is clearly (as yet not explained) very powerful with the force, which she has not needed to use in Jakku, but he's triggered the Awakening in her.

Later on, the forest, after the wounded Kylo has almost killed Finn, he once again makes the mistake of showing Rey that you can retrieve things using the force, hence she takes this as a clue that she might be able to do it - which she succeeds, and of course, finally, whilst fighting Kylo AGAIN makes the mistake of mentioning training her in the force, which AGAIN reminds her that she can use the force whilst fighting... as Mas says, just close your eyes and you will hear it.

And Kylo Ren is not a fully trained force user, and he's badly wounded by Chewie's shot to the side - of course it's possible that some strong with the force, if untrained, with righteous indignation and anger on her side could possibly defeat him. I'm sure he's lost quite a bit of blood by then.

So, in summary, she is credible, mysterious but credible.

If you have to come up with theories as to why she's already so awesome at everything then the character development is indeed poor.

Almost everything she does it's saying "hey don't ask why or how, just accept it". To me that's a lazy way to create what's essentially the most pivotal character in the movie.

I don't find her credible at all given she's just been inserted into the world and is already taking on and beating powerful forces all by her self. I find her rapid development nothing but comical, thus zero connection with the character.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

You haven't critiqued a character at all! I've given you critiques, [MENTION=236]Papa Lazarou[/MENTION] has given you a critique, I've not seen anything from you that has any weight to it whatsoever. Full of just one liners. You've been provoked into giving something back, and all you've managed is arrogant insults. Seriously, I love talking about Star Wars, could do it for ages, what you've demonstrated is that you don't. You just like playing the clever dick, but never wanting to go any deeper.

So I've pointed out that...

Knows nothing of the Force - 30 minutes later wielding the force like a well trained Jedi.
Is a Junker - No explanation of how she can fly the MF like one of the best pilots in the galaxy other than a throw away line that she can pilot. Repairing it does not mean you know how to fly it.
Never seen or used a LS before - Can instantly fight with one like an expert.

All that adds up to a comical lazily written character for mine.

That said all you need to do to counter that is say "oh but the force lets her do all that".

So why bother discussing it at length when that's going to be your cop out as to her overpowered ways.

 

[Triggaaar]

Jesus kids, I pop out of the class for a couple of hours and it's turned into mayhem.

Off topic but that made me ponder how a movie/film buff is defined.
One definition I saw said that if any of the following apply to you then you're a film buff:
1. While channel surfing, you join a good movie in progress, and watch the rest of the movie (even though it may require you to adjust your plans for the rest of the day).
2. After you watch a movie, you go look up its cast and crew to learn more about them.

Those 2 apply to me, but not the rest.

Not sure that works. The dictionary definition of a buff is a ​person who ​knows a lot about and is very ​interested in a ​particular ​subject. Based on that I'm no movie buff but (and this is no criticism) you appear to be a massive Star Wars buff.

Yep, SW, not movies in general. I'm often offended by weak plots, and sometimes by weak acting - and equally pleased by a good plot and decent acting. But I'm no connoisseur. I don't pick up on little things like a buff would.

Loads of Star Wars is unbelievable. If the jedi are so clever whose bright idea was it to hide Luke with his uncle of the same name?

I'm partly with you, but his uncle was Owen Lars. One reason might be that they believed it would be some time before the Emporer was interested in him, and so it would be best if he was loved by family while he was young.

You mean just after he's had his arse handed too him?

Think that kind of proves the point. Luke got beat up and needed rescuing by others quite a bit early on.

By Darth Vader!

Rey just breezes through without a single bit of training being able to do and control pretty much everything she has to without a problem.

First she was frozen solid, she had no idea what was happening. Then she was rendered unconscious without even being touched. Then her mind was read. Then she had her first experience of using the force herself. And then in her next encounter with Kylo Ren, she was again knocked unconscious without being touched. Not the breeze you describe at all. And when she's fighting the injured Kylo Ren he's not trying to win, he takes it for granted that he's going to win, he's trying to persuade her to join him.

He's also never faced an adult that can use the force before Rey. He's no Darth Vader. Not yet, at least.

It took Luke quite a bit of training to even be able to lift a box off the ground with the force.

No it didn't. In his first ever attempt to use the force, after just being told what it is, he deflects blaster shots while blindfolded. With no more training he evades Darth Vader's shots and then destroys the death star without his computer. We don't see him train before he meets Yoda and on day one with Yoda he's lifting his X-Wing up (not much, but he lifted it a bit). And while Luke had the power within him, he wasn't the best pupil at that stage. He was impatient and petulant, and he didn't really believe. Rey had heard about the Force, she saw what Kylo Ren could do, and she believed.

Ren stopped a blaster shot mid air and kept it frozen.

So they start off with him doing something very difficult that only a highly trained Jedi could do and by the time he battles Ren he's become a complete amateur when it comes to the force.

I agree he was very, sorry, most impressive. But he's not an amateur at the end. He's not trying to kill Rey.

You get some explanation back as to why people didn't agree with you, and it's she's a pretty girl, you're all duped...

She is very pretty. Sorry, did you say anything else?

Well it's apparent that nobody is allowed to pass comment on the character because as soon as someone does someone has a crack at them. Added that anyone who looked into the film in a bit more depth needs to "chill out" and make all kinds of reasons up for excusing anything stupid and just accept it. Because you know, that's what the most awesome film fans do.

Or... in my case at least, I simply disagree with you. You've posted comment, and I've posted comment. I've looked at the film in plenty of depth too. You think it's all stupid and I'm just making up excuses, I disagree. I'm allowed to disagree, right?

 

[Bold Seagull]

So I've pointed out that...

Knows nothing of the Force - 30 minutes later wielding the force like a well trained Jedi.
Is a Junker - No explanation of how she can fly the MF like one of the best pilots in the galaxy other than a throw away line that she can pilot. Repairing it does not mean you know how to fly it.
Never seen or used a LS before - Can instantly fight with one like an expert.

All that adds up to a comical lazily written character for mine.

That said all you need to do to counter that is say "oh but the force lets her do all that".

So why bother discussing it at length when that's going to be your cop out as to her overpowered ways.

Has Max Landis not tweeted enough for you to go any further?

 

[Triggaaar]

Just catching up here:

Knows nothing of the Force - 30 minutes later wielding the force like a well trained Jedi.

Already covered - no different to Luke really.

Is a Junker - No explanation of how she can fly the MF like one of the best pilots in the galaxy other

Firstly, she doesn't fly like one of the best pilots, she just manages to defeat two Tie Fighters. Secondly, just because they don't go into detail about why she can fly, doesn't mean she can't. She's obviously flown a fair bit in the past - I can't see the problem.

Never seen or used a LS before - Can instantly fight with one like an expert.

Luke had never seen one, and his first attempt is deflecting blasters blindfolded. At least with Rey her weapon of choice was already a melee weapon, so using a light sabre isn't going to be such a leap (as it would have been for Luke).