Will Tony Bloom allow gus to spend his millions this summer.

[LamieRobertson]

Hasn't been a crap season. But the way its ended has been hugely disappointing. Too say people need to get a grip because we lost to Reading and West Ham is a bit like trying to ignore the issue. Its not just a defeat to these two, its the limp draws at Doncaster, Forest, Brough, Cardiff, the defeat to Burnley. It's that Gus' team selection and tactics have been well off in the past month or so when it was needed most. Gus was brilliant for our club, but we were not as shit as everyone makes out when he took over. Adams took over a top 8 club and screwed it, but most of the players were there. Slade kept us up, but when sacked the squad wasn't as bad as 19th (otherwise he wouldn't have been sacked). Poyet took over a top ten sqaud IMO and with a few additions took us up, and full credit to him.

He spent big in the summer, and against West Ham, which was arguably our biggest game of the season (someone said Southampton, what?) and blew it. Not one of his big signings started. Too me if you don't play your top 4 signings (5 or 6 if you include Noone and Harley) in your most important game of the season, then you've got something badly wrong. If it was just bad luck, you could accept it.

But the man has one style of play. He is unwilling to change that set up, even if it is blantly not working. Fine be that way in the premiership, with a top squad, but its nearly every week he says something didn't do as they should have done... err Gus, ever thought they are not good enough.... oh yer, you said that maybe the case yesterday, so why oh f***ing why, keep sticking to the system the players painfully cannot understand and play.

Reading 442 top of the league
WHU 442 6-0

Us, more wingers than the RAF and we don't play them, the manager refuses to change things and then see our season drift away. Are we not a little entitled to be pissed off at him?

ye it was me who said southampton...although i indicated there might hav been another one...and whats yur problem with that...prior to that we had been on a dire run...and you wudnt have been thinking about playoffs at that point....so ye i challenge you to call the west ham game as there biggest...imho

 

[Mr Burns]

Did gus negotiate the deals? Did Gus agree to pay 2.5m, possibly rising to 3.25m, or did Gus say "I would really like CMS" and then Tony or Ken or John agree to spend that money? Did gus see a kitty of 6 million and think "great, a couple of million pound signings, and 6 or seven half mill signings and it really shapes the squad" only to see the money men spend most of it on CMS?

Is it Tony's money, or is it the club's money from season ticket sales etc?

WOW!! Are you seriosuly suggesting that although chasing CMS since January 2011 window, that Gus didn't know how much he would cost, and that he didn't realise he would take up a huge chuck of his transfer budget? I know you wont have a bad word said against him, but thats pushing it a bit far!!

I know I say we have apologists on here who would rather believe anything they want to if it meant not critising anyone at the club, but that post is one your strangest.

It seems then Gus can't take responseabilty for not using his signings well enough, because he wasn't in control of who we sign!?!?!? WOW!! Who'd have thought that!

 

[LamieRobertson]

Hasn't been a crap season. But the way its ended has been hugely disappointing. Too say people need to get a grip because we lost to Reading and West Ham is a bit like trying to ignore the issue. Its not just a defeat to these two, its the limp draws at Doncaster, Forest, Brough, Cardiff, the defeat to Burnley. It's that Gus' team selection and tactics have been well off in the past month or so when it was needed most. Gus was brilliant for our club, but we were not as shit as everyone makes out when he took over. Adams took over a top 8 club and screwed it, but most of the players were there. Slade kept us up, but when sacked the squad wasn't as bad as 19th (otherwise he wouldn't have been sacked). Poyet took over a top ten sqaud IMO and with a few additions took us up, and full credit to him.

He spent big in the summer, and against West Ham, which was arguably our biggest game of the season (someone said Southampton, what?) and blew it. Not one of his big signings started. Too me if you don't play your top 4 signings (5 or 6 if you include Noone and Harley) in your most important game of the season, then you've got something badly wrong. If it was just bad luck, you could accept it.

But the man has one style of play. He is unwilling to change that set up, even if it is blantly not working. Fine be that way in the premiership, with a top squad, but its nearly every week he says something didn't do as they should have done... err Gus, ever thought they are not good enough.... oh yer, you said that maybe the case yesterday, so why oh f***ing why, keep sticking to the system the players painfully cannot understand and play.

Reading 442 top of the league
WHU 442 6-0

Us, more wingers than the RAF and we don't play them, the manager refuses to change things and then see our season drift away. Are we not a little entitled to be pissed off at him?

u can be what ya like...i'm not...puzzled at times...but some of us look at the bigger picture...still each to there own

 

[Mr Burns]

ye it was me who said southampton...although i indicated there might hav been another one...and whats yur problem with that...prior to that we had been on a dire run...and you wudnt have been thinking about playoffs at that point....so ye i challenge you to call the west ham game as there biggest...imho

Challenge accepted. West Ham was our biggest game of the season. We blew it and are season is over.

Doncaster was the biggest occassion by a million miles

I dont get the Southampton one. We'd lost four on the trot with a depealted squad where at times we had 14 fit players.

If you say Southampton, then surely Hull, Millwall, WHU, Birmingham, Watford and Barnsley were more important as we'd gone 5 games without a win before those 6 games earlier in the season.

Sothampton was one of the most enjoyable and satisfying, I'll grant you that, and I think you are getting that and what is meant by the biggest/most important

 

[Mr Burns]

u can be what ya like...i'm not...puzzled at times...but some of us look at the bigger picture...still each to there own

Yer like Southampton being our most important game of the season...... Okay righto. As you say, each to their own!

 

[El Presidente]

Challenge accepted. West Ham was our biggest game of the season. We blew it and are season is over.

Doncaster was the biggest occassion by a million miles

I dont get the Southampton one. We'd lost four on the trot with a depealted squad where at times we had 14 fit players.

If you say Southampton, then surely Hull, Millwall, WHU, Birmingham, Watford and Barnsley were more important as we'd gone 5 games without a win before those 6 games earlier in the season.

Sothampton was one of the most enjoyable and satisfying, I'll grant you that, and I think you are getting that and what is meant by the biggest/most important

Burnley was far bigger, because realistically we were unlikely to get much from Reading or West Ham, it was therefore essential to get a result there.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Challenge accepted. West Ham was our biggest game of the season. We blew it and are season is over.

Doncaster was the biggest occassion by a million miles

I dont get the Southampton one. We'd lost four on the trot with a depealted squad where at times we had 14 fit players.

If you say Southampton, then surely Hull, Millwall, WHU, Birmingham, Watford and Barnsley were more important as we'd gone 5 games without a win before those 6 games earlier in the season.

Sothampton was one of the most enjoyable and satisfying, I'll grant you that, and I think you are getting that and what is meant by the biggest/most important

maybe meet half way on that one...saints match at home seemed pivotal..in that it was from that match we moved up the table after 4 losses on the bounce.......donny ye big occasion but also so important to win yur first match ..build confidence etc...but for me it was the saints game

 

[LamieRobertson]

Yer like Southampton being our most important game of the season...... Okay righto. As you say, each to their own!

or like u west ham

 

[Mr Burns]

This is an interesting thread that, apart from a couple of hints, has completely missed the most important point.

The appointment of David Burke to a position where he is responsible for all recruitment in the club (players, coaches and support staff) is so significant and really deals with this "Will Tony let Gus spunk his millions?" question...

Our club is following a model that, provided it is followed through, almost guarantees our success in the Championship and then in due course in the Premier League.

A crucial plank in the strategy concerns player recruitment. Instead of having a dubiously qualified manager agreeing transfer fees and wages, often on the basis of nothing more than his personal experience of the player, we will be following a professional approach whereby all player recruitment is overseen by David Burke and in particular the negotiation of transfer fees and wages.

Obviously, Gus will still have the final say and hopefully his personal standing in the game will still help us attract players but, for example, the recruitment of a promotion winning goalkeeper (at the right fee and wages) will be more down to David Burke and his team of scouts/analysts than to Gus...

Good post. A lot of people have missed the point, and it seems they are trying to obsolve Gus of the blame as he doesn't control the negotitation. But as you rightly point out, Gus has the final say and always should, but we wouldn't be signing a promotion winning goalkeeper, if Gus didn't agree to it. Off course the scouts will bring a huge list of players to Gus, and Gus chooses the ones to go for. The comment about CMS by Acker was inceredible as Gus coverted CMS and Bloom landed him. Gus would have fully known CMS would take up a huge slice of the budget. We are not going to break our transfer window 3 times in a month, and Gus not agree to each and everyone of them.

 

[Acker79]

WOW!! Are you seriosuly suggesting that although chasing CMS since January 2011 window, that Gus didn't know how much he would cost, and that he didn't realise he would take up a huge chuck of his transfer budget? I know you wont have a bad word said against him, but thats pushing it a bit far!!

I don't consider myself an apologist. I don't believe I commented on any of your "gus is too predictable" threads, because I don't feel I can really counter those arguments.

But on this thread you are criticising Gus for doing something that isn't his job. He doesn't negotiate. He doesn't sign the cheques. If the club couldn't afford these players, or if Tony didn't want to fund them, he wouldn't. I'm saying you can't blame gus for the money spent. He doesn't have the final say on whether the club will pay for a particular signing or how much they will pay. He says who he wants and someone else says whether the club can afford them.

With regard to whether or not he knew how much CMS would cost, just before the deal is done, probably. But I'm talking at the start, £6m on the table, maybe 1.5 for cms, 1m for another player, still leaves 3.5m. Sounds like a decent transfer kitty for our situation (then the negotiations blew that when other teams were interested pushing CMS's price tag higher). It was his first season as a championship manager. He now realises he needs a bigger budget because he needs better players and/or better negotiators.

I know I say we have apologists on here who would rather believe anything they want to if it meant not critising anyone at the club, but that post is one your strangest.

I don't think highlighting how you're criticising gus for spending money as if he negotiates the deals and signs the cheques, when he doesn't is particularly strange.

It seems then Gus can't take responseabilty for not using his signings well enough, because he wasn't in control of who we sign!?!?!? WOW!! Who'd have thought that!

I have not commented on how well (or not) he has used the signings. My only point is that Gus isn't responsible for signing the cheques or negotiating the deals. If the club don't want to spend the money, Gus can't force them to, the club has the final say.

 

[Seagull73]

WOW!! Are you seriosuly suggesting that although chasing CMS since January 2011 window, that Gus didn't know how much he would cost, and that he didn't realise he would take up a huge chuck of his transfer budget? I know you wont have a bad word said against him, but thats pushing it a bit far!!

I know I say we have apologists on here who would rather believe anything they want to if it meant not critising anyone at the club, but that post is one your strangest.

It seems then Gus can't take responseabilty for not using his signings well enough, because he wasn't in control of who we sign!?!?!? WOW!! Who'd have thought that!

I'm afraid it's your repetitive use of the word 'apologists' that ruins any credibility your opinions may have had.

Seriously, get a f***ing grip. Shit result? Certainly. Shit performance, I wasn't there but by all accounts absolutely. Perplexing team selection, sure, but even Gus is allowed a bad day at the office isn't he? Has he not done enough for this football club over the last couple of years to have earned just a teeny bit of slack on one - admittedly very poor - result?

And just a reminder, stop using the word apologists, you sound like the wankers from Lewes or Falmer councils.

 

[WhingForPresident]

I'm afraid it's your repetitive use of the word 'apologists' that ruins any credibility your opinions may have had.

Seriously, get a f***ing grip. Shit result? Certainly. Shit performance, I wasn't there but by all accounts absolutely. Perplexing team selection, sure, but even Gus is allowed a bad day at the office isn't he? Has he not done enough for this football club over the last couple of years to have earned just a teeny bit of slack on one - admittedly very poor - result?

And just a reminder, stop using the word apologists, you sound like the wankers from Lewes or Falmer councils.

A 6-0 hammering in such a massive game after putting out THAT squad is hardly a "bad day at the office". More like a punching-your-boss-in-the-face-then-shitting-on-his-desk-then-banging-his-wife-on-said-desk-smearing-her-and-the-desk-in-your-faeces day at the office.

 

[El Presidente]

A 6-0 hammering in such a massive game after putting out THAT squad is hardly a "bad day at the office". More like a punching-your-boss-in-the-face-then-shitting-on-his-desk-then-banging-his-wife-on-said-desk-smearing-her-and-the-desk-in-your-faeces day at the office.

Out of interest, who would you have played instead?

 

[driller]

Did anyone actually notice the pitch at west Ham? the line had been bought in so much to make it the most narrow pitch I have ever seen ? I think that is why there was no wingers. There just not was the room.

I also had good chats with tanno and gus recently and the budget for next year is not as they want. We will do well to keep hem let alone sign new players !

 

[WhingForPresident]

Out of interest, who would you have played instead?

I would've gone with:

--------------------Brezovan---------------------
---Reyes----Greer------Dunk----Mattock---
-------------------Bridcutt------------------------
---------Vicente------------Navarro---------------
--Buckley----------------------------LuaLua----
-------------------Vokes--------------------------

Reasoning:
Brez- because we have no other options except Gonzalez, who only the coaching staff know about
Reyes- Hasn't been playing well at all recently but has more presence than Calde
Greer, Dunk- We all knew how they would play, so get the two big men at the back and offer the defence a bit more height.
Mattock- An injured Mattock would be more effective than a Painter who hasn't played well in this division and is severely lacking pace and match-fitness
Bridcutt- To break up the play and provide cover for defence
Vicente & Navarro- Vicente as the playmaker, Navarro as a ball-winner/deep playmaker
LuaLua and Buckley- Our fastest and most creative wingers to enable breaking down the wings (Yes there was a narrow pitch, but there would still have been space to expose)
Vokes- Target man. Just to hold the ball up and get a shot away if he gets a look at goal.

I still think we'd have been well beaten regardless of the team we put out- it really didn't have to be 6-0 though.

 

[pauli cee]

Did anyone actually notice the pitch at west Ham? the line had been bought in so much to make it the most narrow pitch I have ever seen ? I think that is why there was no wingers. There just not was the room.

I also had good chats with tanno and gus recently and the budget for next year is not as they want. We will do well to keep hem let alone sign new players !

regarding that, i think our squad is probably bigger than it needs to be at the moment, so we could probably offload more players than we need to get in, helping the budget issue a little bit.
although at the end of the day, it's gonna come down to making a couple of shrewd signings that will do it for us, rather than looking at too many of the 'big' names we could be after, (apologies for stating the obvious...)

 

[Mr Burns]

With regard to whether or not he knew how much CMS would cost, just before the deal is done, probably. But I'm talking at the start, £6m on the table, maybe 1.5 for cms, 1m for another player, still leaves 3.5m. Sounds like a decent transfer kitty for our situation (then the negotiations blew that when other teams were interested pushing CMS's price tag higher). It was his first season as a championship manager. He now realises he needs a bigger budget because he needs better players and/or better negotiators.

I have not commented on how well (or not) he has used the signings. My only point is that Gus isn't responsible for signing the cheques or negotiating the deals. If the club don't want to spend the money, Gus can't force them to, the club has the final say.

Fair play Acker, but if you Gus or anyone else thought they'd get CMS for £1.5m, then your living on another planet. Fair argument you put up, until you say CMS for £1.5m. Gus knows we did well to get him for what we did

 

[Mr Burns]

Seriously, get a f***ing grip. Shit result? Certainly. Shit performance, I wasn't there but by all accounts absolutely. Perplexing team selection, sure, but even Gus is allowed a bad day at the office isn't he? Has he not done enough for this football club over the last couple of years to have earned just a teeny bit of slack on one - admittedly very poor - result?.

For the last time, its not just about the poxy West Ham result.

 

[Mr Burns]

I also had good chats with tanno and gus recently and the budget for next year is not as they want. We will do well to keep hem let alone sign new players !

Really. Maybe there's a reason for that.
Craig Noone
Ryan Harley
Will Hoskins
Romain Vincelot
All players Gus has paid good money for and hardly ever uses. Is it any wonder with the amount of waste in our squad, the budget is being tighten a bit. Maybe time to start selling instead of buy buy buy.

If thats true maybe Bloom is getting a bit pissed off with the waste.

 

[Mr Burns]

Greer, Dunk- We all knew how they would play, so get the two big men at the back and offer the defence a bit more height.

What you'd drop Adam El-Abd. Player of the season. Man of the match last time out.

You'd play with a central defender that can header a ball against West Ham!!!

They'll burn you on here with old fashion thoughts like that!