West Ham fans anti - semitic chanting BBC News

[Danny-Boy]

Just saw on BBC news a report on some west ham fans anti-semitic chanting on returning from the spurs game.

What is wrong with some of these people ! First Chelsea now West ham.

Embarrassing and pathetic . ( Jewish people make up less than 0.5 % of the population i understand)

Is it mob mentality or something more sinister ? Seems particularly odd as Jewish people seem to be so well intergrated into British society.

Spurs have always been branded as a "Jewish" team, mainly because of their ownership, and presumably proximity to Golders Green.

But this goes back years, I remember Palace had Mark Lazarus for a while in the late 1960's and going to an away match where Laz was playing well, and the home fans chanted the "Y" word.

 

[Danny-Boy]

"You believe Verwoerd was a worry-wort politician, not a cruel racist bigot. As for Ian Smith, "give the blicks enough roape and they will hing thimsilves". In reality, both these leaders absolutely had a malign view of blacks. I lived through those years.

Face it and call it how it was and please, don't rewrite history. Sure, Verwoerd and Smith were politicians and may have feared democracy but in large part because they also happened to be vicious and unapologetic racists. End of."

Funnily enough though many white people saw Mugabe ruining Zimbabwe and left, Ian Smith stayed to the end.

I can also remember the British Government trying to broker an agreement to leave Bishop Abel Muzorewa in charge rather than either the leaders of ZANU or ZAPU who were both tribally-based liberation movements. Sadly that failed and the subsequent war between the Shona and Ndbelele tribes has destroyed the economy of what was once one of the richest countries in Africa.

And maybe like Yugoslavia after Tito, Zimbabwe will disintegrate too with more bloodshed when Mugabe breathes his last.

 

[The Spanish]

if Claire Short is so passionately irish then she should know the Irish colonised large areas of Scotland, imposing their language and culture.

What a silly, silly woman, and what silly, silly people.

 

[The Spanish]

Spurs have always been branded as a "Jewish" team, mainly because of their ownership, and presumably proximity to Golders Green.

But this goes back years, I remember Palace had Mark Lazarus for a while in the late 1960's and going to an away match where Laz was playing well, and the home fans chanted the "Y" word.

i think the association predates Golders Green being very Jewish

 

[Megazone]

Didn't Hitler persecute homosexuals and gypsies too?

If so, I wonder what people would think of what's said at Brighton v Palace matches?

 

[Mattywerewolf]

i think the association predates Golders Green being very Jewish

Golders green is very heavily Jewish....But interestingly is closer to Arsenal than Tottenham

 

[looney]

I almost can't be arsed...but if that nice Dr. Verwoerd was more worried about democratization than his view of black South Africans as subhuman (or racially inferior), why did he strive so hard to keep the races apart and treat such as Steve Biko and Nelson Mandela (and thousands of others) so "poorly"? If you are truly worried about the Great Threat of Democracy, why throw agitators out of police station windows, torture and incarcerate others in inhuman conditions, and make countless others "disappear"? (Biko was naked and manacled for 20 days before he was assaulted in custody and killed). Like their leaders, the Gestapo-like "security forces" and police did indeed have a very malign view of their black compatriots.

You believe Verwoerd was a worry-wort politician, not a cruel racist bigot. As for Ian Smith, "give the blicks enough roape and they will hing thimsilves". In reality, both these leaders absolutely had a malign view of blacks. I lived through those years.

Face it and call it how it was and please, don't rewrite history. Sure, Verwoerd and Smith were politicians and may have feared democracy but in large part because they also happened to be vicious and unapologetic racists. End of.

Oh I can agree with most of that but it does't detract from my mai argument. Being prejudiced does not mean causation to somethig worse. Some times it already is worse, sometimes it just remains a deep seated prejudice and sometimes it gets worse for other exsternal causes.

 

[looney]

Well, after being treated to that, whistle-stop, one-eyed tangle of garbage history I now fully understand the self parody of your username.

"Ignorance", "scapegoats", "fear", "treated like shit" all had their roots in prejudice.

Oh great looks like the village idiot has internet access, scapegoats or fall guys are primarily chosen for convinience and the beleif it wont back far.

Ignorance is a form of not knowing, hence your post can be discribed as ignorant but it would be pushing it to say prejudiced. Fear also has many causes.

 

[Del Fenner]

Golders green is very heavily Jewish....But interestingly is closer to Arsenal than Tottenham

Indeed. Most Jews that I know support Arsenal.

 

[Diego Napier]

Oh great looks like the village idiot has internet access, scapegoats or fall guys are primarily chosen for convinience and the beleif it wont back far.

Ignorance is a form of not knowing, hence your post can be discribed as ignorant but it would be pushing it to say prejudiced. Fear also has many causes.

Congratulations, no one could ever accuse you of letting logic, cogent reasoning or literacy get in the way of a good argument.

 

[looney]

Congratulations, no one could ever accuse you of letting logic, cogent reasoning or literacy get in the way of a good argument.

Whats the point? You are obviosly not up to logic or a good argument. So how many jews have been murdered by football yobs whe were earlier singing Yido songs?

 

[Saladpack Seagull]

My hope is that we can all be grateful for every human being, regardless of race, religion or sexual orientation,that makes our County and City such a great place to live in. Forget the labels: leave the mindless chanting to the Londoners, and enjoy the amazing mix of people in Sussex By The Sea. And on an Albion note, let's remember where we'd be without the input, in time as well as money, of our Jewish supporters, not just now, but for decades. Anyone connected to our Club in any way has no colour but Blue and White and worships at the Temple of Bloom.

 

[Diego Napier]

Whats the point? You are obviosly not up to logic or a good argument. So how many jews have been murdered by football yobs whe were earlier singing Yido songs?

Good grief, your solipsism knows no bounds. Is that that's what you call logic? Ok, let's give it a go.

By using a simplistic (childish even) cause and effect question and employing hyperbole as a pointedly personal put-down (like the alliteration?), you trivialise the subject.

On one level, such behaviour caused offence. It may not offend you but it does others. Yes, some will tell the victims to "grow some balls" or other such boorish epithets but really, is it too much to ask for a little social sensitivity? Such behaviour not only hurts the individual but their wife, husband, parents and children too. It reminds them that they have been discriminated against throughout history in horrific ways, it marginalises them, it makes them realise that they are resented because of their race and their religion. It really is not acceptable in a civilised society.

On a significantly more serious level, it give succour to those who harbour racist views or even racial hatred. Trivialising or normalising such incidents is the thin end of the wedge. There has been a ground swell in the last few years in the support for UKIP and many supporters see them (rightly or wrongly) as a party against foreigners, people who look or dress differently, or who are different in whatever form that their intolerance resents. Yes, the possibility of a socially divisive movement escalating into a horrendous evil like Nazism is extremely remote but even the chance that one unhinged bigot feels sufficiently emboldened to take action is one too many.

 

[Seagull58]

Utter cobblers as usual. Do you actually know any Jews ?

He's right to an extent. Jewish people to tend to socialise within the Jewish community in my experience. Particularly if they are religious.

 

[Seagull58]

"You believe Verwoerd was a worry-wort politician, not a cruel racist bigot. As for Ian Smith, "give the blicks enough roape and they will hing thimsilves". In reality, both these leaders absolutely had a malign view of blacks. I lived through those years.

Face it and call it how it was and please, don't rewrite history. Sure, Verwoerd and Smith were politicians and may have feared democracy but in large part because they also happened to be vicious and unapologetic racists. End of."

Funnily enough though many white people saw Mugabe ruining Zimbabwe and left, Ian Smith stayed to the end.

I can also remember the British Government trying to broker an agreement to leave Bishop Abel Muzorewa in charge rather than either the leaders of ZANU or ZAPU who were both tribally-based liberation movements. Sadly that failed and the subsequent war between the Shona and Ndbelele tribes has destroyed the economy of what was once one of the richest countries in Africa.

And maybe like Yugoslavia after Tito, Zimbabwe will disintegrate too with more bloodshed when Mugabe breathes his last.

Not only did Ian Smith stay to the end but even after his death he has continued to vote for ZANU-PF in every subsequent election.

 

[looney]

On one level, such behaviour caused offence. It may not offend you but it does others. Yes, some will tell the victims to "grow some balls" or other such boorish epithets but really, is it too much to ask for a little social sensitivity?

This bits ok, a request for manners and against rudness but...

Such behaviour not only hurts the individual but their wife, husband, parents and children too. It reminds them that they have been discriminated against throughout history in horrific ways, it marginalises them, it makes them realise that they are resented because of their race and their religion. It really is not acceptable in a civilised society.

Here you begin to lose it, start drifting towards conjecture and unsubstansiated claims. I have looked for evidence, research, after a spat about speech codes which is a similar thing. There is none, for against. In fact I would easily challenge you that an insult reminds the insulter of the "full weight of history", this is just rhetoric and histrionics and then....

On a significantly more serious level, it give succour to those who harbour racist views or even racial hatred. Trivialising or normalising such incidents is the thin end of the wedge. There has been a ground swell in the last few years in the support for UKIP and many supporters see them (rightly or wrongly) as a party against foreigners, people who look or dress differently, or who are different in whatever form that their intolerance resents. Yes, the possibility of a socially divisive movement escalating into a horrendous evil like Nazism is extremely remote but even the chance that one unhinged bigot feels sufficiently emboldened to take action is one too many.

This gives you the oppertunity to smear a political party and its supporters. IT doesn't reflect the parties policies and if I was to generalise about some other precious groups in such a manner it would soon have you and other hypocrites shitting kittens.

 

[Diego Napier]

This bits ok, a request for manners and against rudness but...

Here you begin to lose it, start drifting towards conjecture and unsubstansiated claims. I have looked for evidence, research, after a spat about speech codes which is a similar thing. There is none, for against. In fact I would easily challenge you that an insult reminds the insulter of the "full weight of history", this is just rhetoric and histrionics and then....

This gives you the oppertunity to smear a political party and its supporters. IT doesn't reflect the parties policies and if I was to generalise about some other precious groups in such a manner it would soon have you and other hypocrites shitting kittens.

The statement I made about victims responses to prejudice is not rhetoric but borne out of experience, something you demonstrably lack, along with any sensitivity to the appropriate social mores of a multicultural society.

Did you make a wilfull decision to misunderstand my final paragraph? Read properly what I wrote about UKIP. My reference to the movement was to draw a parallel with the fascist movement, both catch/caught the Zeitgeist of their respective times. You infer that I was smearing them; that is a reflection on your intellectual capabilities. I went on to emphasise that a similar escalation today would be highly unlikely but the extremist action of an individual wasn't but you conveniently ignore that in your haste to finish with a cheap and easy throw-away generalisation.

Earlier in the thread you stated that I'm not up to logic or a good argument. With the arrogant hand that you've played over the last few days you've revealed both a woeful lack of cards for the former and very long suite in the latter. One-eyed Jack.