Vaughan v Trott

[big nuts]

Of the 18 county captains all are 30 or over. Of those, 4 are overseas players (Madsen, Klinger, Sarwan and Chris Rogers). Of the remaining 14, 9 are England discards (Collingwood, Foster, Key, Chapple, Read, Trescothick, Batty, Joyce and Troughton).

That leaves 5 guys all over 30 and overlooked by England to this point - Jimmy Adams, Peters, Mitchell, Gale and Wallace (and even he's Welsh).

Therefore, if England are looking for an alternative to Cook from the county circuit they'll be wasting their time.

When was the last time an England captain had experience of captaining their County?

I would imagine Graham Gooch. The chances of this happening in the future appear to be receding as less and less County cricket is played by England players on central contracts.

 

[Bold Seagull]

"failing on the biggest stage and he admitted that the previous occasion he suffered burnout was in South Africa in 2009-10, the only other time he has faced top-quality fast bowling.
"He was in a bad state mentally in both series but also technically. Until he corrects the faults in his game against fast bowling, he will not get any better.'[/I]

These statements could equally be about Cook to be honest.

 

[Pavilionaire]

When was the last time an England captain had experience of captaining their County?

I would imagine Graham Gooch. The chances of this happening in the future appear to be receding as less and less County cricket is played by England players on central contracts.

Indeed. And is it any surprise recent captains Strauss and Cook have both been ultra-conservative and cautious? The nature of the 4-day county game in England and Wales encourages captains to be innovative and attacking because of having one day less than the test arena and the often inclement weather at the start and end of the county season. By contrast, 5 days test matches are seldom drawn without the intervention of the weather and time is therefore less of a factor. This, in turn, stifles creativity. Bowlers are often rotated by numbers and so often the only real skill is field placement or the timing of the introduction of the fifth bowler.

I can see Cook handing over to Broad, and it worries me that without Prior delivering as the "all-rounder" and Swann now retired Broad could get over-burdened and our tail would start when No. 6 comes in.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Read any book about pro cricket and it will tell you how important the captain is. From Frances Edmonds' diaries to Simon Hughes' A Lot Of Hard Yakka to The Art of Captaincy (obvs) to Beyond A Boundary (and these are just the ones I can remember off the top of my head) the captains role is stated to be vital.

 

[vegster]

Indeed. And is it any surprise recent captains Strauss and Cook have both been ultra-conservative and cautious? The nature of the 4-day county game in England and Wales encourages captains to be innovative and attacking because of having one day less than the test arena and the often inclement weather at the start and end of the county season. By contrast, 5 days test matches are seldom drawn without the intervention of the weather and time is therefore less of a factor. This, in turn, stifles creativity. Bowlers are often rotated by numbers and so often the only real skill is field placement or the timing of the introduction of the fifth bowler.

I can see Cook handing over to Broad, and it worries me that without Prior delivering as the "all-rounder" and Swann now retired Broad could get over-burdened and our tail would start when No. 6 comes in.

It happened with Botham and it happened with Flintoff too.

 

[Lifelong Supporter]

Mr Benaud knows a thing about cricket and reckoned -

Captaincy is 90 per cent luck and 10 per cent skill. But don't try it without that 10 per cent."

I side with him.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Vaughan was an excellent batsman and a good captain, but an increasingly irritating know-all as a pundit. He points out all the problems and offers no solutions.

P.S. even Boycott burnt out in 1973 and wouldn't play test cricket for four years.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Vaughan was an excellent batsman and a good captain, but an increasingly irritating know-all as a pundit. He points out all the problems and offers no solutions.

P.S. even Boycott burnt out in 1973 and wouldn't play test cricket for four years.

i concur

 

[Moshe Gariani]

i concur

I also agree with the last few posts (sorry Titanic, the Sauvignon Blanc and olives can go back in the fridge...).

Vaughan was a great batsman and a decent captain.

The fact that he appears to be something of a ****, lacking insight and judgement, supports my argument.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I also agree with the last few posts (sorry Titanic, the Sauvignon Blanc and olives can go back in the fridge...).

Vaughan was a great batsman and a decent captain.

The fact that he appears to be something of a ****, lacking insight and judgement, supports my argument.

Supports your argument that in professional cricket the captain is pretty much irrelevant!? All you've done is spin this around, asking questions of others to support the argument of the captain being important, while never really backing up your statements below (the only reason this spiralled this thread in the first place).

I understand why cricket watchers like to put so much faith in the "great captain" argument. It fits in with people's experience of club cricket where a charismatic leader on and off the field often makes the difference to a team's fortunes for a period of time.

You won't, however, find many people involved in professional cricket subscribing to this view. Professional cricket teams win and lose pretty much independently of who is captaining them.

 

[John Bumlick]

Read any book about pro cricket and it will tell you how important the captain is. From Frances Edmonds' diaries to Simon Hughes' A Lot Of Hard Yakka to The Art of Captaincy (obvs) to Beyond A Boundary (and these are just the ones I can remember off the top of my head) the captains role is stated to be vital.

Nothing to add to this thread except that if you call yourself a cricket fan you must read the above book.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Nothing to add to this thread except that if you call yourself a cricket fan you must read the above book.

Totally agree

 

[Buckley's Mad Eye]

Feel for Trott.



http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/current/story/737793.html

 

[Pavilionaire]

I'm not surprised to hear this news. He's had a great career, but he's done.

 

[OzMike]

Vaughn = media whore, just shut the f**k up and let the team settle, he was tired and burnt out, which could all lead to stress.
He should move on with his mate Pietersen and just disappear.
It was cringing watching and listening to him over here.
He just wouldn't let it lie.

 

[The Birdman]

Sussex destroyed his recovery and confidence. Give the boy a break he done well for England lets remember the good days.

 

[Greyrun]

Not surprised felt Trott was in denial about his condition,hard to accept you are suffering from a mental illness.Wish him all the best.

 

[knocky1]

Trott being in denial about his depression has not helped him or other sufferers.

 

[Greyrun]

Trott being in denial about his depression has not helped him or other sufferers.

Agree but helping others is the last thing on your mind you spend all your thoughts on trying to make sense of what is happening to you and trying to survive and get through the day without people noticing something is odd about your behaviour.The pressure that builds from being "normal" often means that those closest to you end up coping the fallout.Horrible time and even in recovery you feel as if you are suffering from a form of post traumatic stress.Hope he takes time to recover and does not have to suffer more I'll informed comments from media whores.

 

[Triggaaar]

Trott being in denial about his depression has not helped him or other sufferers.

Is he still in denial now?