Vaughan v Trott

[Pavilionaire]

As an England fan I feel short-changed. Trott mismanaged himself, the management have failed to recognise burnout and then, when he left the tour, they went along with the depression thing.

I don't see there's a way back for Trott. Top level test cricket is all about the mental battle, it's what elevates it above the crash, bang, wallop of one-day cricket.

 

[brakespear]

Now that is just ridiculous. Vaughan was a superb captain. Got the best out of some seriously average players, not least the likes of Geraint Jones and Ashley Giles. He was the opposite to Cook and even Strauss's captaincy by numbers, Vaughan was instinctive, understood the key moments in games, would set fields which had everyone scratching their heads but invariably bought England a wicket. He micro managed players, got them playing for each other and captained to their strengths. Superb leader, and massively underrated as a captain as posts like yours confirms.

Agree with this, and also really like him as a pundit as well. On the Trott side of things, it does sound liek he didn't fancy posting a bit of a taxing time vs the Australians so decided to nip off home. Would be difficult if that were the case to select him even if he performs well in the domestic game in case the same happens again.

 

[paul wickens]

I think it was a total disgrace for Trott to walk out on the Ashes tour because he was "burnt out". How many of us feel exactly the same every Monday morning?! (And possibly many other days of the week too!). Many of us have have family, mortgages etc etc where we just don't have the option to walk out and go home.

Trott's "job" was to fly around the world, first class, staying at the best hotels, dining at the best restaurant, and then...every now and then...go out and PLAY SPORT....and get bloody well paid for it too. I feel so very sorry for him.

Funny how he wasn't "burnt out" when England were winning and he was making big scores eh?

Being selected to represent your country at any sport should be greatest honour there is. Nothing should ever come close. If you walk away from that wonderful opportunity and fantastic life (style), you should NEVER get another chance. Trott let the team and the country down. He should never be allowed back.

Most people don't have to go to work on a Monday morning and face a hostile crowd of 50,000 Aussies screaming abuse, 11 opponents in your 'ear hole' all the time, intense media scrutiny and millions of arm chair pundits who think they know best. Professional sportsmen and women have to be mentally tough to get to the top and stay there for as long as Trott has done. Give the guy a break! If he scores runs again in county cricket, then get him back in the test team.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Most people don't have to go to work on a Monday morning and face a hostile crowd of 50,000 Aussies screaming abuse, 11 opponents in your 'ear hole' all the time, intense media scrutiny and millions of arm chair pundits who think they know best. Professional sportsmen and women have to be mentally tough to get to the top and stay there for as long as Trott has done. Give the guy a break! If he scores runs again in county cricket, then get him back in the test team.

I'm sorry but I'm not buying this. Trott doesn't have staff to manage, he gets chauffeured to work, he is handsomely paid. You make the Aussie crowd seem like a pack of wolves when, in reality, for the bulk of the test there is little noise other than The Barmy Army. The REAL pressure was Mitchell Johnson and Dale Steyn. How would he have managed vs Ambrose and Walsh, or Donald, Pollock, or the Windies quartet of Holding, Garner, Roberts and Marshall?

 

[paul wickens]

I'm sorry but I'm not buying this. Trott doesn't have staff to manage, he gets chauffeured to work, he is handsomely paid. You make the Aussie crowd seem like a pack of wolves when, in reality, for the bulk of the test there is little noise other than The Barmy Army. The REAL pressure was Mitchell Johnson and Dale Steyn. How would he have managed vs Ambrose and Walsh, or Donald, Pollock, or the Windies quartet of Holding, Garner, Roberts and Marshall?

In most jobs you can operate a few degrees below par and get away with it; you can't in professional sport and being a batsman in test cricket is probably the most unforgiving environment of all as it only takes one small error and your game is over. I think the amount you're paid and the perks of the job are irrelevant when you're mentally 'gone' as Trott seemed to be. He has been 'found out' by the pace of Steyn and Johnson but he had neither the mental nor physical capability at the time to recover; I hope he can now. In hindsight, he should have had breaks away from the game (missing the ODIs in England after the ashes?) to re-charge his batteries as all top players in the modern era have done ( Trott never seems to get injured!) His perfectionist nature and strong work ethic seemed to go against him as he slogged away trying to put technical deficiencies right.The playing schedules that the England players have to put up with need to be looked at as they play far more Cricket than the other nations.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Trott should have spoken candidly with the management. Nobody would have given a monkeys had he not played on after the summer Ashes and had a proper rest instead. Now his career is in a mess.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Trott should have spoken candidly with the management. Nobody would have given a monkeys had he not played on after the summer Ashes and had a proper rest instead. Now his career is in a mess.

He perhaps feels it isn't a mess and he will be rebuilding it this summer firstly with his county and then possibly with England....Vaughan can carry on with his punditry which in my view he is crap at.

Also, lets add the bit which Vaughan said that hasn't made the headlines:


Vaughan added on BBC Radio 5 live that he was sure Trott would regain his England place.
He said: "I'd like to see Jonathan Trott go away and play for Warwickshire for six months, and get back that love of playing the game.
"I have no question that he'll get back into an England jersey, and so he should, because he's a class player. But he should give himself that bit more time.

 

[OzMike]

Vaughan has too much time on his hands now and turning into a Warne-esque media whore.
Painful to listen to when he was here.
I reckon the Pietersen effect got rid of Trott and Swann.
That effect is gone now and good riddance, so all good to come back.
Welcome back mate.

 

[blockhseagull]

I think the main problem with Trott watching the interview is his assumption he is going to walk back into the side.

Maybe that's the issue Vaughan has?

 

[Stumpy Tim]

Vaughan has too much time on his hands now and turning into a Warne-esque media

I've known Michael for a while - he's my best mates cousin. I can assure you that he doesn't have much time on his hands at all... He runs a sports agency, and is the agent for a number of top golfers.

What I will say is that when I first met him (before he played for England) he was a really nice down-to-earth guy... He's not now

 

[Titanic]

I've known Michael for a while - he's my best mates cousin. I can assure you that he doesn't have much time on his hands at all... He runs a sports agency, and is the agent for a number of top golfers.

What I will say is that when I first met him (before he played for England) he was a really nice down-to-earth guy... He's not now

Not nice? Not down-to-earth? Sounds like he might be a bit of a ****.

 

[BLOCK F]

Well this is what i was thinking......Trott now seems to have been made the villain ..a player who although not depressed etc was though suffering mentally as well as physically......we have Mr Swann who decides to pack up playinghalfway through a tour and join the media set...not much being said about him by Mr Vaughan

Spot on.
Reckon the selectors should look at themselves for not doing satisfactory 'due diligence' on Trott before taking him to Oz.
As for Swann,I just don't understand how he could just leave the tour.He should have stayed in a non playing capacity if he deemed himself not good enough to play..He seems to have got away lightly compared to Trott.Being a bit of a Jack the Lad may have helped , as opposed to the tense persona that is Trott.

 

[keaton]

This is the same Vaughan who said that Pieterson should be "managed", without ever quite getting round to explaining how. Everyone else has tried, everyone else has failed, so what is Vaughan's great secret?

Punditry is easy. Even I can do it. "England are crap and should play better"......

Surely people have managed Pietersen well for pretty much 9 years now, hence him being Englands top run scorer now.

If he was acting up so badly the whole time, he wouldn't be playing.

His 'awful' behaviour boils down do responding honestly to an email that the Moores wasn't up to the job (most people would agree), saying that Flowers was doing a shit job (99% people would agree) and sending that text message.
The text message was stupid but as we've excused people willing to forego playing for England and go on rebel tours of apartheid states for money in the past I still struggle to see why there was so much fuss

 

[Stumpy Tim]

Not nice? Not down-to-earth? Sounds like he might be a bit of a ****.

Let's just say he's now a touch on the arrogant side

 

[Arkwright]

I feel a bit sorry for Trott here, he's been fantastic for England, he is not the only England player to leave a tour with stress related problems, previously we have seen Thorpe and Trescothick leave early. The touring party have a huge support staff including psychologists, surely they should have picked up early on Trott's state of mind.

It's so easy for Vaughan to slag off Trott, that is his job after all and for that reason he will never transfer from TMS to being England Coach.

With reference to KP, once again I don't blame the player but the support staff, surely after a decade of playing for England they must have learnt how to treat the player and how to work with him and get the best out of him. Yes he has a huge ego but he is the best current English batsman and a talent we have seen thrown to T20 and the IPL what a waste.

Last, on Swann, I know it just hear say but if he was told he wasn't going to participate in the Melbourne and Sydney Test he clearly felt that was the job done, I don't as he just threw his toys out of the pram and picked on other touring players instead of working on his game and regaining his form. His reward now is working with Vaughan on TMS they are welcome to each other.

 

[Moshe Gariani]

Now that is just ridiculous. Vaughan was a superb captain. Got the best out of some seriously average players, not least the likes of Geraint Jones and Ashley Giles. He was the opposite to Cook and even Strauss's captaincy by numbers, Vaughan was instinctive, understood the key moments in games, would set fields which had everyone scratching their heads but invariably bought England a wicket. He micro managed players, got them playing for each other and captained to their strengths. Superb leader, and massively underrated as a captain as posts like yours confirms.

Geraint Jones is the only member of Vaughan's 2005 side that would not walk into the current England team.

Like most "great captains" Vaughan had some very good players at a high point in their career (and, no, the fact that they were very good players at a high point in their career was not down to the captain....).

 

[Bold Seagull]

Geraint Jones is the only member of Vaughan's 2005 side that would not walk into the current England team.

Like most "great captains" Vaughan had some very good players at a high point in their career (and, no, the fact that they were very good players at a high point in their career was not down to the captain....).

That's it? That's your comeback argument for saying Vaughan was an overrated captain? Good grief.

Vaughan got the best out of bowlers like Hoggard, Harmison, Jones. He believed in them, bowled them at the right time and mostly set the right fields for them. He seemed to always be giving the ball to the right bowler at the right time. It wasn't just fortunate coincidence that Vaughan happened to chance upon almost every player under him playing the best cricket of their careers. This is why many likened his management of Flintoff to that of Brearley and Botham.

He was a great captain who got a team playing beyond the sum of it's parts make no bones about that. I just hope we can find someone with his imagination, attacking instinct and positive approach sooner rather than later as I honestly don't believe Cook has got it in him and he has had one of the most talented squads of English cricketers in many a year.

 

[Tooting Gull]

Now that is just ridiculous. Vaughan was a superb captain. Got the best out of some seriously average players, not least the likes of Geraint Jones and Ashley Giles. He was the opposite to Cook and even Strauss's captaincy by numbers, Vaughan was instinctive, understood the key moments in games, would set fields which had everyone scratching their heads but invariably bought England a wicket. He micro managed players, got them playing for each other and captained to their strengths. Superb leader, and massively underrated as a captain as posts like yours confirms.

While I do think Vaughan has changed and become a bit of a rent-a-quote, as a captain you are spot on. And bear in mind at that time we hadn't beaten them for ages, so galvanising the team psychologically to think they could actually win was something he did superbly.

 

[vegster]

Excellent, a Cricket Binfest.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Excellent, a Cricket Binfest.

2 x 2-0 Albion wins on the Trott, need to argue about something!!