[Brighton] Two Brighton & Hove Labour Cllrs Expelled!

[Frutos]

no-one has found any joke that I have post in my 56 years pre councillor as offensive.

Erm...are you actually trying to deny this story?

Hove Tory candidate quits over ‘Islamophobic’ jokes

A Conservative candidate standing in May's city council elections has resigned from the party after a series of offensive jokes

www.brightonandhovenews.org

It includes the following quote:

"Brighton and Hove Conservatives agree that many of the jokes are of an offensive nature"

 

[Bodian]

Haven’t got a clue what you are on about. I haven’t post any jokes anywhere since being a councillor & no-one has found any joke that I have post in my 56 years pre councillor as offensive.

I'm a bit confused now. Was this not about you? Brighton & Hove Conservatives found jokes posted by you 'pre councillor' on a private social media forum to be offensive. Or are you saying they weren't 'jokes' or something?

Conservative candidate resigns after making 'Islamophobic' jokes

A COUNCIL candidate has stood down after posting a series of offensive jokes online.

www.theargus.co.uk

 

[birthofanorange]

Just imagine being a councillor that is so very needy, that they feel comfortable popping on NSC and making a tit of themselves, with monotonous regularity. Quite incredible, really.

 

[hart's shirt]

If anyone wants to follow me on Cllr Ivan Lyons Facebook feel free to.

"Don't talk about yourself; it will be done when you leave."
- Wilson Mizner

 

[Easy 10]

 

[Zeberdi]

Haven’t got a clue what you are on about. I haven’t post any jokes anywhere since being a councillor & no-one has found any joke that I have post in my 56 years pre councillor as offensive.

Is the Argus story below incorrect?

Conservative candidate resigns after making 'Islamophobic' jokes

A COUNCIL candidate has stood down after posting a series of offensive jokes online.

www.theargus.co.uk

Sorry I don’t know you but I understood you stepped down because the history that came to light of you posting racist content on facebook was deemed by your Party to render you unsuitable to stand for election?

How can you say ’no one’ found any of your jokes offensive’? The whole point of defining certain language as racist or discriminatory language is because it is prima facia offensive- it doesn’t have to rely on someone making a complaint to be so.

 

[The Clamp]

Erm...are you actually trying to deny this story?

Hove Tory candidate quits over ‘Islamophobic’ jokes

A Conservative candidate standing in May's city council elections has resigned from the party after a series of offensive jokes

www.brightonandhovenews.org

It includes the following quote:

"Brighton and Hove Conservatives agree that many of the jokes are of an offensive nature"

Wow.

I am genuinely quite shocked. This man holds public office?

He should be thoroughly ashamed of his behaviour.

Not a one off either. Went to the effort of joining a Facebook group to deliberately post offensive material.

Pretty grim.

 

[Chicken Run]

FAO Mods, can you please ban the Cllr from this thread please, by him showing up and the attention he’s receiving has completely derailed a perfectly legitimate thread ironically about his opposition in local government!

 

[Nobby]

There is a process for complaints, you can challenge the behavior of any councilor against the code of conduct:

Please find a link to the code of conduct for members:

https://www.brighton-hove.gov.uk/content/council-and-democracy/code-conduct-members
Please also see below a link to the complaints process for members should you wish to pursue this matter further:

https://www.brighton-hove.gov.uk/council-and-democracy/feedback-about-council-services/complaints-about-councillors

For more info email thomas.bald@brighton-hove.gov.uk

Good to know. Maybe some of his constituents on here might like to start it off. Presumably you have to be a constituent

 

[Zeberdi]

FAO Mods, can you please ban the Cllr from this thread please, by him showing up and the attention he’s receiving has completely derailed a perfectly legitimate thread ironically about his opposition in local government!

I don’t think that’s going to raise the level of debate somehow - there isn’t much more to say at the moment about an ‘investigation‘ that we don’t know any details about - and this thread has provided another great opportunity for NSCers to highlight the particular credentials that the local Tory Party must think make Ivan Lyons such a fine example of what the public want to see in a Tory Councillor .

 

[Happy Exile]

I'd never vote Tory anyway, but this whole thing suggests to me they must have a severe shortage of decent candidates prepared to stand for them.

 

[Zeberdi]

Good to know. Maybe some of his constituents on here might like to start it off. Presumably you have to be a constituent

See my post above

The LA Code of Conduct for Councillors is only applicable if the complaint is made in regard to activities that a Councillor carried out in the course of his or her business as a Councillor.

“They may dismiss a complaint if, for example, there is no breach of the Code, the councillor was not acting in an official capacity, or the matter is trivial and it is not in the public interest to investigate...”

A pre-Councillor posting racist jokes before he was elected does’t fall under the Code of Conduct for example (even though it was enough for him to resign from the campaign)

 

[Happy Exile]

See my post above

The LA Code of Conduct for Councillors is only applicable if the complaint is made in regard to activities that a Councillor carried out in the course of his or her business as a Councillor.

“They may dismiss a complaint if, for example, there is no breach of the Code, the councillor was not acting in an official capacity, or the matter is trivial and it is not in the public interest to investigate...”

This is true, but I believe (possibly wrongly) a complaint can still be made and have some bearing. I know of a councillor who was prevented from taking part in some activities due to something they'd done on nights off. which had been widely reported and complained about and which I think ended up with the police involved and that councillor getting a caution.

The public interest bit mentioned above, can I reckon be interpreted to be about protection of the public which gets around the issue if something didn't happen while working as a councillor

 

[Zeberdi]

This is true, but I believe (possibly wrongly) a complaint can still be made and have some bearing. I know of a councillor who was prevented from taking part in some activities due to something they'd done on nights off. which had been widely reported and complained about and which I think ended up with the police involved and that councillor getting a caution.

The public interest bit mentioned above, can I reckon be interpreted to be about protection of the public which gets around the issue if something didn't happen while working as a councillor

Not via the Council Code of Conduct by a member of the public - that is only when they are acting in their capacity as a Councillor . However, if a Councillor has allegedly committed a crime and been the subject of a police complaint, then that is another matter and they could be charged separately under the Law.

“All councils are required by the Localism Act 2011 to adopt a code of conduct that sets out the rules governing their behaviour and registration declaration of interests for their councillors and co-opted members when acting in their official capacity.”

A Councillor however, could be in breach of the Code of Conduct if he/she had led the public to believe that they were acting as/using their position as a Councillor when the acts complained of occurred - even if they were not actually doing so officially - then the test requires a further assessment.

Assessment​

Initial tests​

The assessment of a complaint would normally be a two-step process, described by the Committee on Standards in Public Life as the ‘can/should’ stages – the first stage being ‘can we deal with this complaint?’ and the second being ‘should we deal with this complaint?’.
The first step would be a jurisdictional test and would assess whether the complaint is:

• against one or more named councillors of the authority or of a parish or town council the authority is responsible for;
• the named councillor was in office at the time of the alleged conduct;
• the complaint relates to matters where the councillor was acting as a councillor or representative of the authority and it is not a private matter;
• the complaint, if proven, would be a breach of the Code under which the councillor was operating at the time of the alleged misconduct.

Edit - that doesn’t stop a Councillor being asked to resign by his Chairman of the local Party or step down for political purposes (not many Councillors would win seats by fighting in bars or posting racist rhetoric online). It also doesn’t stop residents from the ward that the Councillor represents getting a petition together calling for a vote of no confidence if that’s how they feel;

ePetition - Vote of no confidence for the current local councillors

rbwm.moderngov.co.uk

 

[Happy Exile]

Not via the Council Code of Conduct by a member of the public - that is only when they are acting in their capacity as a Councillor . However, if a Councillor has allegedly committed a crime and been the subject of a police complaint, then that is another matter and they could be charged separately under the Law.

“All councils are required by the Localism Act 2011 to adopt a code of conduct that sets out the rules governing their behaviour and registration declaration of interests for their councillors and co-opted members when acting in their official capacity.”

A Councillor however, could be in breach of the Code of Conduct if he/she had led the public to believe that they were acting as/using their position as a Councillor when the acts complained of occurred - even if they were not actually doing so officially - then the test requires a further assessment.

Assessment​

Initial tests​

The assessment of a complaint would normally be a two-step process, described by the Committee on Standards in Public Life as the ‘can/should’ stages – the first stage being ‘can we deal with this complaint?’ and the second being ‘should we deal with this complaint?’.
The first step would be a jurisdictional test and would assess whether the complaint is:

• against one or more named councillors of the authority or of a parish or town council the authority is responsible for;
• the named councillor was in office at the time of the alleged conduct;
• the complaint relates to matters where the councillor was acting as a councillor or representative of the authority and it is not a private matter;
• the complaint, if proven, would be a breach of the Code under which the councillor was operating at the time of the alleged misconduct.

So I don't know under what mechanism, but the allegation and complaint as it was at the time regarded behaviour towards vulnerable people. No town clerk (or whoever) would reasonably take the risk the allegations under investigation were true and allow continued access to the vulnerable group as part of the individual's duties as a councillor unless they were found to be false allegations. So if not under code of conduct then under some other means - perhaps just refusing them under a public interest argument - they were prevented from taking part in some activities.

I'm guessing safeguarding trumps all.

 

[Zeberdi]

So I don't know under what mechanism, but the allegation and complaint as it was at the time regarded behaviour towards vulnerable people. No town clerk (or whoever) would reasonably take the risk the allegations under investigation were true and allow continued access to the vulnerable group as part of the individual's duties as a councillor unless they were found to be false allegations. So if not under code of conduct then under some other means - perhaps just refusing them under a public interest argument - they were prevented from taking part in some activities.

I'm guessing safeguarding trumps all.

Yes, this would be absolutely the correct response by the Council - if there are known safe guarding issues (regardless of where those stem from) or where there is an ongoing investigation regarding behaviour toward vulnerable people, then contact in a professional capacity would also be stopped by law. Anyone working in contact with vulnerable people have to undergo risk assessments- (including police checks/DBS) - this applies to any voluntary/paid job/profession that requires unsupervised contact or being the primary contact person in work with vulnerable people.

EDIT - https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/47/contents
The Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups Act 2006 (SVGA 2006) was introduced to help avoid harm, or the risk of harm, by preventing people who are deemed unsuitable to work with children and vulnerable adults from gaining access to them through their work.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

FYI - That code is applicable only to Councillors going about their business as councillors. If the behaviour you are upset about stems from them in their personal capacity, there is no redress. You could live next door to a Councillor who is racist, xenophobic bully but unless his behaviour was offensive in the course of carrying out work in his capacity as a Councillor you will have no redress to the Council.

This isn’t true.

 

[Zeberdi]

This isn’t true.

Sources - explain please …

Because the law says quite explicitly it is for acts carried out by the councillor in his official duties

The Law

27Duty to promote and maintain high standards of conduct​

(1)A relevant authority must promote and maintain high standards of conduct by members and co-opted members of the authority.

(2)In discharging its duty under subsection (1), a relevant authority must, in particular, adopt a code dealing with the conduct that is expected of members and co-opted members of the authority when they are acting in that capacity.

I have been involved in a case for 4 years with a Councillor, myself and other Councillors have been trying to remove from a District and Parish Council - he has had repeated cautions for his behaviour towards members of the public, for drunken bullish behaviour and police complaints of harassment- none of them came under the code of conduct because they were incidents in his private life.

His racist and sexist behaviour in Council meetings led to bans from meetings and removal from various committees under the CoC and it took a concerted effort by Councillors (including the very popular ex-mayor standing in his ward at the next election to get him voted out.)

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Sources - explain

Because the law says quite explicitly it is for acts carried out by the councillor in his official duties

The source is the Code of Conduct. You have cherry-picked a paragraph which deals with acting in the specific role. The previous page states this:

Building on these principles, the following general principles have been developed specifically for the role of Councillor.

In accordance with the public trust placed in me, on all occasions:

• I act with integrity and honesty
• I act lawfully
• I treat all persons fairly and with respect
• I lead by example and act in a way that secures public confidence in the role of Councillor

“On all occasions” is pretty clear.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Haven’t got a clue what you are on about. I haven’t post any jokes anywhere since being a councillor & no-one has found any joke that I have post in my 56 years pre councillor as offensive.

You’re weird.